OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Yeah, it's very difficult to get loads of spin and be pinpoint accurate. This is especially true in tight match situations.

I go after my short serves a lot and I can tell you that they aren't all short. I'm just not good enough to get crazy spin and put it on a dime. If I'm not that good, the guys at your clubs aren't either. The spinny serving guys you are playing don't even care if the serve is short or long. They certainly aren't doing the mental stuff I'm doing and I'm really struggling to make the ball bounce twice.

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This may be true and I really can't dispute this. But I find that most people just can't serve the reverse backspin not because of shoulder issues but because they get the racket orientation wrong based on a misunderstanding.

If you did your serve even more facing the table with your body parallel to the net so that your racket was coming forward rather than sideways, it would actually behave more like a backspin serve. This is how many penholders serve the reverse as a backhand serve. Fastmover showed the modification on his diagram but not as extreme as I suggest.

Most people would rather serve a backhand serve in that position but the penholders without a backhand do a reverse serve.

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Rich, it's best to have really spinny short, and long, serves. I know this is a little confusing after everything that's been said, but it's the ultimate way to think about serving.

You don't get a reputation for having dangerous serves by taking the spin off them. The relaxation training and LTT44 & 65 are your tools. Just because 90% of players can't serve short, it doesn't mean you should join the party.

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Yes, I was actually thinking about suggesting this as a development plan. First you can stand with the shoulders almost parallel to the table like on the backhand serve (or maybe with a slight angle), so that you at least get the sense of spin and direction. Then you can gradually move further back as you increase the amount of body rotation.

Another thing is to try serving from the forehand corner cross-court: it will force you to align the racket trajectory with the flight path, otherwise you won't do it at all.

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The short serve is one of the most misunderstood topics in table tennis and giving good advice can lead to people telling you you have no understanding of table tennis.

The most important determinant of serve length is the first bounce on the other side of the table. Next is the amount of forward speed on the ball. People will tell you to focus on the first bounce on your own side but this is actually more of a determinant of speed in my view. The closer the first bounce is to your side, the further the serve has to travel to clear the net and this requires the serve to have energy. Doing this and keeping the serve sheet and close to the net is difficult and takes lots of practice. This is the fast short serve which often goes half long if it is not backspin and often when it is.

The slow short serve is when you serve the ball with the first bounce closer to the net on your side. This reduces the speed of the serve and often makes the serve bounce high and slow unless you have the practice and touch to keep it low. In my opinion, if you can serve the slow short serve low and with no spin, this is one of the most dangerous serves in table tennis. Hard to keep short and low on the return. But it requires so much touch and calibration that you need to know your environment perfectly to do it successfully. My opinion is that tacky forehand rubber is why this serve is not far more common at higher levels.

I think if you can serve short and spinny consistently it is better because it is easier to keep consistent and control the ball height. But the spin also gives the returner options. It is level relative I guess.

Whenever I tell people what I learned from a great server that the most important thing is to focus on the first bounce on the other side, they often say that I know nothing about serving. Being on the internet can be tough sometimes.

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It helps me to visualize where to place the ball on my side of the table when serving. The result of the bounce/spin/speed/height on the other side of the table is the objective, but thinking about the other side of the table doesn't help me when going through the process of serving.

So I think one is more of a serve aid and the other is the objective for the serve and they can get confused pretty easily.

One guy told me the other day that he has trouble reading my serve because my backspin is fast and my top spin is slow so they all look the same to him. Never even considered that one.

If you visualize the path of the whole serve, you visualize both bounces. It may help but it can confuse. But visualizing the whole path is why you can serve short and fast or short and slow and it might actually help you serve faster as you try to get your first bounce closer to your end line and make the serve even faster. Whem Timo Boll says in a video that he is trying to get his first bounce closer to his end line, people who hear that may misunderstand his intent if they don't understand that he is focused on fast serving. He isn't thinking that the first bounce closer to his side means the serve will go long.

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I learned all this the hard way. I lost a lot of matches that counted.

I was told that you have to serve the ball close to the white line in front of you to make a short serve. I was told this by an almost famous Swedish coach. There's actually is some truth to it, but not enough to help. If you serve the ball close to the white line in front of you, you can serve long and half long too. Lots of serves bounce close to you on your side.

If you asked me how to get to Kmart and I told you to drive past the Post Office, it may or may not work. You may well have to go past the Post Office to get to Kmart, but you may also end up in a million other places because there is vital information missing. Are there other turns? How far away is Kmart etc. You'd be better off if I just told you exactly how to get to Kmart.

LTT44 is the video where I explain and demonstrate. If you make a normal low and fast serve into the first 50cm on your opponent's side, the serve must be short. That area on your opponent's side is Kmart. Your side of the table is the incidental Post Office.

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I was actually given the opposite advice and told to serve the first bounce closer to the net for short serves. So I developed slow short serves with high bounce close to the net and could never serve double bounce short. But I guess part of it relates to your starting point. Maybe people assume when you serve long a lot that you are doing so because of how you approach the first bounce on your side and that jr is too far from the net or something. Or no one puts it in one place you can get it all at once together. Of course theory is not practice...

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If it's really working for you, it's all good.

Personally, I can easily imagine my target on the other side. Sometimes I just imagine that someone came and cut/sawed away most of the opponent's side and left me with just 50cms to aim at.

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For me, telling someone to serve closer to the net is like telling them to drive to Kmart via Burger King. It's has exactly the same problems that I mentioned about serving close to the white line.

William talks a bit about serving slow, but I've never actually told anyone to serve slow before. If I did want someone to serve slow, I'd tell them to serve slower and make sure it land in the first 50cm on the opponent's side. If I wanted them to serve faster, I'd tell them to serve fast and make sure it lands in the first 50cm on the opponent's side.

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I always feel something weird when I watch his technique but I have heard from people who play him that he has some really strong serves. Here is his video on the topic.

https://youtu.be/sQyIE0ZBSkY

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I don't think anyone has ever used that slow serve short action against me. I wish they did though. Under pressure, that would end up being a little lob, providing it didn't hit the edge of their racket. If it did hit the edge of their racket, it would hit me in the chest and add to my lump/bruise.

The one he is calling a fast short serve is a proper serve that can work and I imagine that's his normal serve.

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I also teach the head of the racket down. I think I agree with the angle thing too. The contact points instruction is questionable, but give it a try.

Just to be clear, knowing what spin is on your own serve is actually a good thing. I really laughed out loud when he talked about random results off the middle of the rubber...and I was alone!

It's not normal to hear someone talking about serving off the middle of the rubber. As I said, give it a try and see how it goes. I'll probably do the same.

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I think he is so enamored with the serves looking the same that he doesn't want to break that illusion when saying that backspin and sidespin are similar.

While I prefer to finish with the racket pointing downwards, I can also get similar results with the racket point sideways.

Danny Seemiller does similar stuff with the racket pointing sideways. He is a great guy to watch serving. I was not smart enough to ask for tips on that serve the one time I met him at my club.

Since today is serve day, a video from one of the most popular servers in England.

https://youtu.be/EuXKHxRcRbQ

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