OOAK Table Tennis Forum

The kind of reversal you are talking about happens with pips, but not with inverted. At this point, I would recommend you post video of what you are describing or let it go please. Here is an illustration of the conventional view of what happens with spin with inverted rubbers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2vrVwjqktg

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Thanks for the video. But that’s harsh telling me to “let it go please” – bear with me and you might learn something. In this case, that inverted rubbers can “reverse” the spin.
Your video used “reverse” in the other way from how I used it, but in the same way that Gman used it, as a “continuation.” It is commonly used both ways, thus the confusion.

Yes the “reversing” effect is stronger with long pimples, and to a lesser extent with anti-spin (but still greater than inverted), but it still happens with inverted. To see for yourself that inverted (there’s another word we could use!) rubbers can “reverse” spin, you only have to consider what happens when you do a strong sidespin serve. If your opponent returns it passively i.e. to reduce imparting his own spin, you can get your own spin back, and the ball can fly off the side of the table. This must be a continuation/”reversing” of the spin. To further convince yourself, think about which way you need to angle your bat and you’ll see it makes sense (a right-hand server imparting a forehand pendulum style sidespin, will have to aim left to counteract the returned spin). You can also see the effect with back/topspin, but to a lesser extent.

I could help answer my own question by looping strong topspin at someone who blocks long with a stationary bat, and letting that long ball (i.e. it goes long off the table without bouncing) react off my bat to see if it does have slight backspin. I suspect part of the answer is that we rarely use a totally dead bat, so as NextLevel and Wilkinru said, our blocks impart just enough topspin.

Speaking of terminology, what’s the opposite of topspin: backspin? Nope, it should be bottomspin!
Backspin: should be frontspin!
Underspin: overspin!

That test idea reminds me of something else people should do. When they post videos of their disguised underspin/overspin serves, we only have their words for the spin. Perhaps the motion looks the same because it is the same! As proof they should let the ball hit a dead bat, or any surface, to see how the ball reacts.

Please do this and share the results. Thanks. Remember on my first response to you, I spoke about a "closed inverted paddle" - many of the scenarios you are discussing are more relevant for "open inverted paddles". It's not just about the deadness of the bat, it is about the degree to which the ball is gripped (a function of how well the pimples are deformed and exposed to the contact, which is better when the paddle is closed relative to the spin and ball trajectory than when it is open).

Whether any of this makes people play better table tennis is another story. But I want the focus of this thread to always be on people improving their table tennis. IF you can post video relevant to what you are talking about or what you are doing in the context of your TT, it is better for all of us. Discussing issues as complicated as these without videos can take forever, and making them physics topics takes a direction this thread cannot support. Maybe you can open a separate thread on the topic - I spent a lot of my past years discussing such things and I have never had any good players produce satisfying answers. And the TT engineers who purported to do so could never play good table tennis.

There are blogs (https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress ... pin-balls/), videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pY_iHtycaA) and even amateur articles (viewtopic.php?f=58&t=28067#p297576) discussing related stuff. I just would rather the focus here be on improving people's games and techniques. The problem is that none of this stuff makes it clear what to actually do other than practice to improve your table tennis. It is good theory, but just that.

If you want to focus on something other than improving your table tennis, or any topic, feel free to post elsewhere. If you want to practically improve your technique, I believe that the answers provided to you have been more than sufficient. If you want Brett to improve your blocking technique, post some video so we can see what the issues are. Unfortunately, I have spent so much time discussing the physics of table tennis and coaching people that it is hard for me to learn anything that actually improves my table tennis unless it is discussed with video evidence.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

My block still has issues, but here is my first serious attempt to block backhand on the forehand side against a loop.

https://youtu.be/FvRcvtHI5js?t=1080

Comments and criticisms are welcome.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Srsly. Wake me when the new vids are up.

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Curious why would you block from there on your backhand?

It does look like a pretty good start. Like everything else it takes forever to get good at.

So that my students can get more practice without having to loop inside out and I can get more practice as well. If only I was a leftie....

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Someone say leftie?

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

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LTT71 and DTT6 are available on ttEDGE.com

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Dude, WAKE UP!!!!

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with that blocking. It's obvious because your partner can loop it multiple times.

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Thanks. But I want to never miss a block like you pros do.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

DTT6 is fantastic. I just wish I could convince people that they actually need to loop more.

LTT71 gives much to think about. I know that I cannot do that straight arm swing without feeling out of control.

If you start loop-killing their pushes they will soon be convinced they need to loop more. Or you won't be playing them again, either way it's a win for you.

I need to do DTT6. I've been having my practice partners feed long underspin anywhere and I loop all fhs. But that isn't match-like, since I don't automatically pivot on every push, although judging by drill results I'd probably win more points if I did. DTT 6 should be good training to loop when I get a push back after pushing back a serve, which happens a lot, especially in tournaments when everyone is nervous and just wants the other guy to lose to them.

LTT 71 was good too. Kent serves a lot half-long to my fh. Trying to use the full shoulder swing doesn't work, so I have invented some ugly, non-TT swings to compensate. Focusing on the wrist should help there.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono