OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Given the choice I would take mindlessness every time. When I am mindful during play I tend to have my mind on a) the score b) my desire to win c) my fear of losing or d) how crap my xyz technique was on the last point. When I am mindless my technique is often still crap, but since my mind is fully occupied with seeing the ball and hitting it, lots of times good things happen too.

What gets me down sometimes is when something happens that highlights the enormity of the gap between what I need and want to do to get to the level I want to play at, and the time and resources I am actually applying. Going to TT camps is my favorite thing in life, but it really brings home the problem. It kind of feels like walking along the shoulder of a fast-moving road. My semi-educated guess is that if I applied 1,000 hours a year for the next four years to good quality training and matches, and stayed healthy, I'd be a hell of a lot better than I am now. But I'm only doing maybe 500 hours a year, and at least half of that is worthless. It can get depressing, when progress is so slow it's imperceptible over long stretches, months. Realistically that's a big reason I switched to SP BH, because I was frustrated, and when you go from no experience to some the jolt of progress is exhilarating. Of course now I'm eight months into it, and diminishing returns are back.

I think the psychological pressure on hobby players and pros or serious juniors are very different in degree, but not so much in kind. Hobby players play a lot of matches that don't matter, but we all reach a level from where it is very difficult to improve, so our focus shifts from development to results. And focusing on results brings disappointment with it. Real players reach a point where they basically have no chance to surpass the people ahead of them. Like the example of richfs' league teammate who was a top 50 England junior. That is an amazing level, but what were his chances of ever playing for England? And what would he have had to do to beat out Pitchford or Walker (or whoever), considering how hard they must have been working themselves, to win against their targets, who were other internationals. And if the only logical step left for you that remotely justifies the effort, is in practical terms impossible, why do you keep going?

I think we all have one goal in common which is that we want to improve and become a better player. Now, how does one know that he's become a better player?

Ratings could be one way to measure this. We all know that the rating system has its drawbacks, it isn't as objective as we'd like it to be, etc. Nevertheless, a player's rating indicates how good he is - this is why people tend to get attached to their ratings.

What could be other ways to tell that someone's gotten better?
Technique is kinda subjective in the way that my strokes may be looking better but I'm still losing to that guy who has no technique at all.
Beating a guy that I used to lose to may be a measure of success. But if that guy is improving at the same rate that I am, I will never beat him although both he and I are becoming better.

What I want to say is that it is hard to just focus on the process and do not pay attention to the rating or results since I may not be seeing any signs of improvement then.

I think we all have one goal in common which is that we want to improve and become a better player. Now, how does one know that he's become a better player?

Ratings could be one way to measure this. We all know that the rating system has its drawbacks, it isn't as objective as we'd like it to be, etc. Nevertheless, a player's rating indicates how good he is - this is why people tend to get attached to their ratings.

What could be other ways to tell that someone's gotten better?
Technique is kinda subjective in the way that my strokes may be looking better but I'm still losing to that guy who has no technique at all.
Beating a guy that I used to lose to may be a measure of success. But if that guy is improving at the same rate that I am, I will never beat him although both he and I are becoming better.

What I want to say is that it is hard to just focus on the process and do not pay attention to the rating or results since I may not be seeing any signs of improvement then.

I'm actually of the opinion that if you play enough tournament matches (even league ones would do) and play a representative sample of opponents, then rating is a very objective measure of how good you are as a player: it accounts for the quality of your technique, serves, receives, tactics, mental game, style matchups etc. Someone ( NFL coach?) once said: "you are as good as your W-L record".

Which is to say that I'm mostly using ratings as a measure of my progress, which I hope is is different from being obsessed/attached to it .

I think we all have one goal in common which is that we want to improve and become a better player. Now, how does one know that he's become a better player?

Ratings could be one way to measure this. We all know that the rating system has its drawbacks, it isn't as objective as we'd like it to be, etc. Nevertheless, a player's rating indicates how good he is - this is why people tend to get attached to their ratings.

What could be other ways to tell that someone's gotten better?
Technique is kinda subjective in the way that my strokes may be looking better but I'm still losing to that guy who has no technique at all.
Beating a guy that I used to lose to may be a measure of success. But if that guy is improving at the same rate that I am, I will never beat him although both he and I are becoming better.

What I want to say is that it is hard to just focus on the process and do not pay attention to the rating or results since I may not be seeing any signs of improvement then.

Or consistent mindlessness practice. In the end, the goal is to be able to give yourself the best chance of playing your best table tennis when it matters. Mindfulness does help but so can mindlessness. But these are all words - I have always considered flow a state of mindlessless but others may consider it mindfulness. So my goal is still the same- to improve my chances of playing my best table tennis when it matters.

That is why training matters. And I always find it interesting when someone who does not train enough to know his game complains about its quality. But it is usually a disconnect between what we think learning and mastery is like and what it truly is like.

Returning to play again had been a helpful reality check . It is likely aspects of my game are back to 2015 before I started working with Brett since I can't move (and before 2015 I didn't move - with pride). But I wasn't chopped liver back then just a 1900 player.

Thanks for the kind words.

All truths have context.

I'm actually of the opinion that if you play enough tournament matches (even league ones would do) and play a representative sample of opponents, then rating is a very objective measure of how good you are as a player: it accounts for the quality of your technique, serves, receives, tactics, mental game, style matchups etc. Someone ( NFL coach?) once said: "you are as good as your W-L record".

Which is to say that I'm mostly using ratings as a measure of my progress, which I hope is is different from being obsessed/attached to it .

Yes, you're right. I think what I really mean is mindlessness. As you say these are just words so let me give you an example.

I'd like to not get as consumed by thoughts and irritated when I'm playing poorly. I'll play a couple of bad shots and after each of them I'll talk to myself negatively, often without even realizing it. Even when I do realize it, I feel powerless. When I'm playing well, in the zone - in a state of mindlessness I'll still play the occasional very poor shot but the way I'll be playing overall will be good enough that none of those thoughts will come to mind. I feel like I have zero control over when either of these situations will occur. I don't know what the best thing is to do when it happens.. accept the situation? What else can one do? Telling myself to think about the process doesn't seem to do much in the heat of the moment.. I just don't know.

What about the guy who does 1 tourney a year and does 6 matches?

Yes, you're right. I think what I really mean is mindlessness. As you say these are just words so let me give you an example.

I'd like to not get as consumed by thoughts and irritated when I'm playing poorly. I'll play a couple of bad shots and after each of them I'll talk to myself negatively, often without even realizing it. Even when I do realize it, I feel powerless. When I'm playing well, in the zone - in a state of mindlessness I'll still play the occasional very poor shot but the way I'll be playing overall will be good enough that none of those thoughts will come to mind. I feel like I have zero control over when either of these situations will occur. I don't know what the best thing is to do when it happens.. accept the situation? What else can one do? Telling myself to think about the process doesn't seem to do much in the heat of the moment.. I just don't know.