OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Iskander is right about most of the shots having a fair amount of hip rotation. My comment was particular for the shot fastmover mentioned.

I think the reason why this hip turn doesn't contribute much, is due to the shoulder/arm movement that starts simultaneously with the forward hip turn. In stead the hip turn should initiate the shoulder/arm swing. In the video of Karakasevic you can see this around 1:10, where the forward arm swing starts slightly after thte hip is turned. With fastmover you don't see this small delay. Most of the time, hip and arm are moving forward together, starting at the same time.

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All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
sun tzu

BTW, the shot that I missed is not quite representative, because I was a bit out of position and hitting on the fly. Here is a better one. Notice the massive whip motion on the second shot of my partner. I knew it was going to be heavy, I was in position, but my loop hit a bit below the top of the net.



@hopper, that is a valuable observation, I have to think about it.

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Tactics Enthusiast

I think the first loop was perfect. As you noticed the return had much more backspin. However if you look at the height of your bat at the end of your backswing of the second loop, it's the same height as of your first loop, while considering the backspin, it should have been lower to enable even more acceleration and upward lift in the forward Swing.

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All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
sun tzu

I agree, I should had bent my knees at around 90 degrees.

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Tactics Enthusiast

The stroke looks basically correct, if you have a preexisting condition in your shoulder from your prior technique, which is likely the case, then anything will hurt.

That said, the stroke is limited in the power it can generate, it is hard to hit the ball with power without playing over the ball with fast racket head speed as too much power goes into speed and too little into spin.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

It seems to me that the wrist timing is pretty darn important to get that extra whip. I suspect a considerable amount of power is from the wrist whip itself. Have been watching lots of forehands lately by pros and they all show that loose wrist whip, even against backspin. It's like they hit and brush at the same time?

In a sense, yes - modern rubber technology promotes this. The way I prefer to describe it is that the power and the spin come from the same motion and are to a good degree in the same direction, which is one large powerful stroke round the ball. William Henzell says something similar in his video on traditional rubbers.

Brushing might give people the wrong impression depending on what you think brushing means. Brushing just means tangential. The actual contact to the degree it is tangential can sell be pretty thick and ball deforming. But when you play tangentially over the ball you are playing a forward stroke which generates the power and the tangential contact creates the spin. It is better to continue to follow the contour of the ball a bit over it rather than to just play tangentially based on initial contact. If you play upwards on the ball, then the ball is being sent upwards which may create spin, but doesn't give the ball the direction you need to keep it on the table.

This is all theory best learned by experiment and practice. But I would say try to play over the ball as much as possible experimenting with different swing trajectories and seeing where they place the ball based on the oncoming spin and your contact point etc. Always try to play a good non-shallow salute as much as possible, not as high as fastmover and not as repeatedly low as say some basement players. In matches, unfortunately, you can only play what your anticipation and footwork supports.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yeah I think always my problem has been the forward contact which means I'm probably missing the wrist whip.

I am so jealous of big power forehands still and it's been a crutch on my game for as long as I can remember. It's better these days for sure but still not nearly as good as others. Time for some video analysis.

You can get whippy swings without the wrist. You need to relax the wrist for maximum effect but you don't use the wrist. You just perform a whip motion. With whip motions, the problem is usually the backswing not the forward contact but if it is the forward contact, make a right arc around the ball with your snap. No matter how big or small, make it an arc and try not to let it be shallow.

When people have inconsistent backhands, the most common error I see is that they are trying to craze the ball as thinly as possible. This may help you get spin but will make you miss the ball. If you rotate your upper arm or elbow joint in a small circle, as long as you hit the ball somewhere in the middle of that motion, you will spin the ball because a curved motion will turn the ball around. How much spin you get will depend on how well you time the ball with the turning motion as well as how fast your racket is moving. I usually try to hit the ball first and when I feel I am locked on the ball, then I add the snap from the wrist.

As long as you let your racket lag your body turns on both the backswing and the forward swing, you are getting whip. The wrist just has more flexibility than most body parts for safe rapid acceleration. Don't muscle the wrist to make it snap, relax it. Study the Advanced Serving Mechanics video and the Backhand Topspin like a Boss Videos from Brett. With that and the Whip Forehand, you can easily build whio into all your strokes if you make a conscious effort to do so and forget about putting the ball on the table in the beginning.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yeah I'm working on trying to brush a little less and get a little more thick contact on both sides. I still get lots of spin but more power can be achieved and actually end up with more consistency due to the ball going over the net more often.

I also notice I'm not hitting the rubber in the best of spots. On the forehand I tend to hit the bottom of the blade (not the end). On the backhand I'm hitting very much at the end of the blade. Both are causing mishits a bit too often. It seems to be easier to fix the backhand on this. The new balls I've been using have lots of dust and show it off quite well.

Ben and Brett, I love your videos!

Ben and Brett, you are behind schedule!!!!

I have students to coach who I need to deceive by stealing your infinite wisdom and experience and pretending I know something. It doesn't help when you leave me with nothing to steal for so long. I can't teach blocking forever you know! I mean, I even let students watch TTEdge videos before the lesson so they can pick up a thing or two. But only one - if they watch too many, then the game is up.

So hurry up, guys!

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

This is me. Knowledgeable but know nothing.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Yeah, me too. In my case those dust spots are all over the blade face rather than in the middle, like with most people.

Iskandar

NextLevel, we are working hard. I practically have Benjamin Button living at my house these days. He's eating all my food between writing scripts and filming. The dude is seriously hungry!

I'm personally still working on the LTT Series whist Benjamin works on DTT. I think I'll have LTT64 out on Sunday/Monday EST. I'm hoping Button has DTT1 out tomorrow.

I feel you on content and apologize for the delay. I do have some really interesting stuff coming up in LTT. I would personally love to steal someone else's ideas and make some cash through private coaching though. It kinda sucks being a creator of original material as it's immensely time consuming.

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