OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 19 Apr 2024, 21:12


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8509 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211 ... 568  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2018, 13:38 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Another thing is that playing strong pivots requires a lot of experience and feel. And it is impossible to obtains this experience without playing awful pivots at first, especially in competition.


Just try to imagine how many times Heming has done that pivot in training. It all started at the age of 6 or 7.


And he probably was taught to do it properly from the get go, while I was doing it all wrong for around two years.


Were you taught to pronounce your words properly at the age of 2, or did you just follow the crowd?

Don't underestimate how much young table tennis players just follow the crowd. It's pretty close to 100%. People make the assumptions that good players know more about table tennis, which is kind of hilarious. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

When adults migrate to Australia with a 6 year child, they just send them to school and, within a few weeks, their child magically speaks perfect English with an Aussie accent. Did that child have expert English coaching? Is he now very knowledgeable about how to speak English? Is he a professional coach? No, he followed the crowd in the playground. Don't underestimate the significance of the playground in sport! Try to imagine the playgrounds in Chinese table tennis.

These days, I talk to Heming extensively about table tennis technique. It has become a crazy, never-ending dialog, no matter where I am. The majority of it is about making him understand what he does well, so he can do more of it. When you learn table tennis at the age of 6, you don't always know how things actually work. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 06 Jun 2018, 22:09 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
I just spoke to Heming and he is now subscribed to this thread. It's probably rare that the No.1 player of a country (and continent) joins a TT forum, so enjoy. He might not answer every question, but it's worth a shot.

Heming does some coaching in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, for those of you who are interested. In which other sport can club players have someone with Heming's credentials coaching them or their children? He is currently working with the No.3 under 15 in Australia and he's doing an amazing job.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 02:35 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2015, 13:09
Posts: 1224
Location: Las Vegas
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 91 times
Welcome to the party, Heming. We're junkies on trying to get great technique but we'll settle for decent. It looks like you are going for something beyond decent but the goal is one as the same :D


You know I wonder if there are some pro lurkers on here. We've hit on some pretty interesting topics over the...yikes...years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 06:04 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
Brett Clarke wrote:

These days, I talk to Heming extensively about table tennis technique. It has become a crazy, never-ending dialog, no matter where I am.

That is not very hard to imagine.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 10:39 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2018, 21:45
Posts: 17
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Blade: Petr Korbel Flared
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
Brett Clarke wrote:
I just spoke to Heming and he is now subscribed to this thread. It's probably rare that the No.1 player of a country (and continent) joins a TT forum, so enjoy. He might not answer every question, but it's worth a shot.

Heming does some coaching in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, for those of you who are interested. In which other sport can club players have someone with Heming's credentials coaching them or their children? He is currently working with the No.3 under 15 in Australia and he's doing an amazing job.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 16:31 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2018, 21:45
Posts: 17
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Blade: Petr Korbel Flared
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
Brett Clarke wrote:
I just spoke to Heming and he is now subscribed to this thread. It's probably rare that the No.1 player of a country (and continent) joins a TT forum, so enjoy. He might not answer every question, but it's worth a shot.

Heming does some coaching in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, for those of you who are interested. In which other sport can club players have someone with Heming's credentials coaching them or their children? He is currently working with the No.3 under 15 in Australia and he's doing an amazing job.


Hello everyone/fellow Table Tennis lovers,
First of all thank you Brett for formally inducting me into the group where all the fun seems to be happening :)

This is my first time ever being on a Table Tennis Forum so please bare with me with any technical mistakes made by me on the computer/forum! I will be taking questions from all you guys and will do my best to reply to everyone as well and quick as I can. Sometimes when I am travelling overseas for tournaments, my replies can be slow but I'll do my absolute best!

Other than that, lets do this :)

If you have any questions, go right ahead

Heming


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 22:36 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
Since we've been talking about the pivot... Heming, how do you decide on whether to pivot, or play a backhand? What is your personal preference?

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 23:27 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
Also, what is your physical training regime?

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 00:27 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2018, 21:45
Posts: 17
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Blade: Petr Korbel Flared
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
fastmover wrote:
Since we've been talking about the pivot... Heming, how do you decide on whether to pivot, or play a backhand? What is your personal preference?



Hi fastmover,
that is a very good question. Despite the question sounding like a simple one, the answer is quite complicated and depends on many factors. There is no definite answer to this but I will give you my thoughts/answer on this.



Firstly, until the age of 20, I was always told by other coaches and believed that I had a much better forehand than backhand. I tried to pivot as much as possible and use my forehand all the time. Through experiences, I realised that it was impossible for me to just rely on my forehand and pivot all the time without thinking, hoping for the chance to use my forehand. Key word there: "hoping". I lost many points, even matches because of this. Over time, I started to see that my backhand was actually pretty good and I was not giving it the credit it deserved. I was over-relying on my forehand and not using my backhand enough, in my opinion. I still knew that the backhand shot was less versatile in general and it was hard to play as strong and hit winners with it, compared to the forehand has always been my strongest shot.

My coaches in China advised me to look for chances early on in the points to attack first with a good quality backhand and this sets up the opportunity to pivot much easier than guessing and hoping. This way, I am setting up chances to pivot, instead of "hoping" that the ball will come in the right spot for me to turn around and slam it for a winner. As you know, there is always the possibility that if you pivot (especially too early), your opponent will put the ball down the line and then life is tough.

Think about if someone plays a fast, strong backhand or a very spinny one into your backhand, and now think about if they just play a medium or low paced/quality type backhand to your backhand side. In which situation do you think you are more likely to be forced to return the ball back to their backhand? Definitely against a strong quality backhand. In this situation, you are more much likely to be having difficulty with the quality, and will be happy to just be returning the ball back on the table. The quality of the shot either given you less time(fast backhands) and/or more difficulty(spinny balls). Most likely in that moment, you won't be thinking about where you put the ball back on the table, as the control of the point is not in your hands at this moment. Where someone is playing medium quality backhands against you, you are given so much more room(less spin from opponent=less room for mistake for you), time, etc. You can easily put the ball back anywhere you want to and this is not a great time for them to pivot.

Once I realised this, I started to get much better results in the start of points, rallies and results of points/matches overall. I was playing strong backhands and pivoting after it, and this has become a big strength of mine.

So to answer your question, my decisions are something like this:

-Pivot whenever I have played a good backhand and can see the opponent on the "back foot" (of course there will be times where the opponent knows/sees this in advance and catches you out. Sometimes they can be too good. However, this is more or a less a "general rule of thumb" for Table Tennis. This is a common tactic Chinese and even many other continents' top players use. I tried this a few times against Dima Ovtcharov at the Team World Cup earlier this year in February and in most of them he knew my tactic/idea and as he has one of the best backhands in the world if not the best, he was able to play a good backhand down the line even after I played a very high quality backhand at him. Even the best players(Ma long and Zhang Jike sometimes also) get caught out at times.

-If it is a very fast close to the table rally, I will generally stay on my backhand. Pivoting during a very close table fast rally is difficult and can often result in moving around and being jammed. This results in a far less quality shot compared to if I stay on my backhand and try to be solid there.

-If my opponent steps back far from the table, I will always try use my forehand. When your opponent steps back, their shots will give you a lot more time and space on the table. I will always try to play with forehand in this situation because it is safer and stronger than my backhand. When a point results in both of us going far back from the table(loop-loop), I will always look for forehand.

-Against an opponents long push, I will generally open up with my backhand(unless they push long to my middle of forehand of course) because I can get more spin and it is a very reliable shot for me. Only if I am feeling very confident and extremely good, and/or see the long push is a bad quality one, I will try turn around and kill it with the pivot forehand.

-I also like to push long and fast to opponents backhand and more times than not, they will spin crosscourt and I will try to turn around, take a small(around 20cm) step back and play a forehand counter spin. Here, I am banking on my previous training that I will be fast enough to cover the wide fh ball even if they spin up there. Again, I will make it at times and some times I will get caught out. You lose some you win some. Serving long and fast to someones backhand and pivoting is also a handy tactic and can also work.

-Lastly, I have to add that it does depend a lot on footwork and knowing how to move. The better your footwork is on the court=the more opportunities there are for you to pivot and play forehand effectively.



Over the last couple of year or so, Brett has really emphasised the 'two-step" process on the backhand with me and I feel like I have gotten good at this, improving my backhand dramatically.
I would say that in many ways, my backhand is arguably a bit better than my forehand side. Depending on who I play against, my choices will vary but generally, both of my wings are almost equal and one isn't really MUCH more stronger than the other. I find myself using and staying on my backhand A LOT more now since 2015/2016 compared to previously, as the game has speed up a lot these last few years and its harder for players in general to find as much time and space needed to pivot as much as they did back in 2000-2012 ish. In other words, these days its more and more important for players to be good on both wings and complete players.


For some players they are much stronger on one sideand they want to use their stronger side almost always. For example, Aleks karakasevic and ovtcharov will set up their serves, returns etc to get into points where they can use their strong backhands as much as possible. Somebody like Ryu Seung Min or Ma lin will look to get around with a forehand as much as they can, their amazing footwork helps them do this so well. Now you will see these players (less ovtcharov because he is more modern), struggling A LOT against the likes of Ma long, Fan Zhendong, Zhang jike, etc. Don't forget the banana flick has also made the game even more complicated to pivot against, but this is a whole new topic.


Hope that is clear and helps!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 00:36 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2018, 21:45
Posts: 17
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Blade: Petr Korbel Flared
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
fastmover wrote:
Also, what is your physical training regime?




If by physical training you are referring to strength and conditioning, and gym, then it goes something like this

Monday: Long jog for 15-20 minutes for fitness. Swimming for fitness, strength and most importantly to improve my back mobility. Table Tennis players generally have lower back problems from all the stress from bending down and turning their waist so much.

Tuesday: Gym. 4 sets of 3-4 reps of squats. Chin ups to build upper body strength and medicine ball swinging to build core strength

Wednesday: Agility training with cones and snake ladders, to improve agility and foot speed. I do these with table tennis related movements.

Thursday: Spend time building my left arm with dumbbell exercises. The difference between my right and left arm size is too big and this has caused me shoulder problems in the past. The physio said there was too much weight slanted on my right side and building left arm strength will somewhat compensate for this. Playing table tennis with my right hand, its almost inevitable that my right arm will be much much much stronger

Friday: Gym. Lunges and push ups. Core exercises with the medicine ball.

Saturday: I play tennis competition with some friends. This is a fantastic idea in my mind and Brett is also a fan of this. Playing a little bit of tennis is fine for my table tennis as the sports are very very different. However, playing too much of course is not good for my table tennis. During the tennis sessions, I am relaxed with no pressure, having fun with friends and at the same time I am moving a lot on the court side by side, in an out and also building strength with all the requirements of tennis shots/rallies/movements.

On top of this is 1 session a day of Table Tennis practice(sometimes 2), 6 days a week.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 00:50 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
Heming Hu wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Since we've been talking about the pivot... Heming, how do you decide on whether to pivot, or play a backhand? What is your personal preference?



Hi fastmover,
that is a very good question. Despite the question sounding like a simple one, the answer is quite complicated and depends on many factors. There is no definite answer to this but I will give you my thoughts/answer on this.

...



Wow, that is an epic post! Thank you for a lot of insight and reflection.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 03:12 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 3578
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 305 times
Blade: Joola Vyzaryz Trinity
FH: Golden Tango
BH: Golden Tango
Heming,

Thanks for that awesomely detailed answer. Apologies in advance for the self congratulation but when I coached players at my relatively low level and they talked about having strong forehands or backhands when they hadn't (in my opinion) taken the time to train good technique on their weaker side, I tried to explain to them that a lot could change about how they viewed that weaker side if they developed proper technique.

Your story makes my point better than I ever could.

My question to you is about strategy. How has your application of strategy to your matches evolved over the years?

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 09:18 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2015, 13:09
Posts: 1224
Location: Las Vegas
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 91 times
Heming,

Lately I'm seeing a lot more serves to my forehand, short. I think this is because I now have a serviceable backhand flick.

I've watched some of your matches I could find on youtube and notice you've started using the punch serve more often very much like Henzell where as before you were doing more pendulum serves.

I could be wrong and my sample size is small here. When did you transition over your serve to the punch? Why did you make this transition?
I also saw a backhand serve in a more recent video also...looked VERY much like some other guy who gets awkwardly low before serving ;)

I have a theory that serving short to the forehand is one of the safer places and while it can be flicked at least it makes people move.

Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 11:49 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 08 Apr 2015, 11:50
Posts: 1515
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 188 times
Hi Heming, thank you so much for joining us on the forum.

On another forum a very nice guy translates all the pro post-match interviews. And reading them the Chinese players always talk about matches in terms of solving problems. My question is: do you think that way during matches, about solving problems? And is there any way for a player to train or improve at that, if they don't have a coach, outside of playing lots of matches vs lots of different people.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 12:45 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
fastmover wrote:
Heming Hu wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Since we've been talking about the pivot... Heming, how do you decide on whether to pivot, or play a backhand? What is your personal preference?



Hi fastmover,
that is a very good question. Despite the question sounding like a simple one, the answer is quite complicated and depends on many factors. There is no definite answer to this but I will give you my thoughts/answer on this.

...



Wow, that is an epic post! Thank you for a lot of insight and reflection.


Yep, it was an epic response and it goes to show that's it's not so easy to answer what appears to be a simple question. TT is a complex sport. You get the feeling that Heming could write a lot more on the topic of pivot.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8509 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211 ... 568  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 73 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group