OOAK Table Tennis Forum

That makes sense. It's possible I'm starting the backswing a bit too early, but I feel it's more like I let the backswing keep going, longer than it needs to - this doesn't necessarily mean it's a big swing - it just loses speed, and by the time I engage the body, there isn't enough speed the get the whip mechanics. But I'll check my backswing next time I record myself training.

It's a really good question. I need to see where you are at before I can be specific with feedback. If you don't want to post footage here, email me on [email protected] 30 seconds is enough and it can be done on a phone.

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I guess the reason is because previously I massively failed to get out of the way of the ball and got cramped all the time. So the focus was to jump to the side as much as possible to give myself more space for the shot. Now it is time to add a real backswing to this motion.

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Tactics Enthusiast

I'm starting to think I need a new thread talking about the mental anguish of trying to get better at table tennis. It's an extremely frustrating sport. You think you've figured it out? Well there is a BETTER way to do it. Every. Single. Time. Only when you become decent with a sub-optimal stroke do you understand the more optimal stroke, even if you've seen it over and over.

Well back to the thrusting of hips practice (which used in a match means I over hit the table by a mile btw)...

On a side note, do any of you start getting to the point where the ball just doesn't come back if you hit a quality shot? Practice partners not able to rally is pretty frustrating.

Russ' concerns are real. He can make great forehand and backhand topspins against the robot yet he's still struggling to implement into matches. I see this all the time with ttEDGE and live students. In some ways, it's more frustrating than never being able to play a legitimate shot.

Obviously effort over long periods of time is the only solution. It's getting harder and harder for people to accept this though as technology moves forward at rapid speed. We can now buy equipment with a few clicks of the mouse and it magically arrives at your door within days. When does the close match spinning torso forehand topspin arrive at my door? Why does this kid get to master it by the age of 10 or something? https://youtu.be/Gf6HNlbNuVg?t=22

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I wonder if Ma Long sometimes goes to bed thinking "I can do this in training, but it totally whacks off in matches, what is wrong with me".

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Tactics Enthusiast

The answer would be sometimes, but not always. When he is playing well in a match, he would feel much better than training.

Top athletes have amazing concentration that only kicks in fully when their adrenaline is properly flowing. Without this characteristic, they aren't a top athlete. For example, Henzell told me that he normally beat Waldner in training when they played in the same team. We all know that Henzell wouldn't have gone near Waldner in the singles at the World Championships. Waldner's concentration levels would increase by 50X and Henzell maybe 10X. I'm making up these numbers like an idiot, but that's my best guess.

I've personally only achieved a state, where I didn't feel like I could miss a ball, under match conditions. I've never come close to that in training.

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Ok here's some of my warm up :https://vimeo.com/236566873

Looks like for Vimeo tags you only need video id...

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

A pet peeve of mine is players believing that their practice partners are usually to blame when they hit a quality shot and it doesn't come back. I have seen 2700 player tone down their loops so that 1600 players can block them. I at my current 1900 level have done it for years and have rallied with 1200 players who were just willing to block. As long as you are looping with proper form, you can always tone down your loop to get a quality practice if the other person has reasonable blocking technique. Save your power loops for when you practice with professional coaches (trust me, even better players aren't often enamored by practicing vs quality loops from players who often spray the ball to multiple locations on the table when going for quality). There is value to drills where you try to hit the ball away from people but when you are practicing consistency, you need to find the right level to dance with your training partner.

I started a thread on it a couple of years ago:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_po ... ed-players

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Stop using the robot. Seriously, just stop. I had an Amicus pro and three other robots before that. They don't work. Great for TT-specific fitness, got to give them that. Rubbish for improving, a big net negative.

I took a lot of abuse for complaining in my short-lived blog about practice partners who suck. Many People Who Know said you can learn loads training with someone 400 points below your rating. Just play to their strength, or use the same serve every time, or play backhand every shot. But of course that's all bullshit. If you train with people who can't block you will never learn to put a series of loops together. If they can't serve deceptive spin you will suck at receiving. You have to find partners who can give you a quality practice. If you have to pay them, or drive a long way, that's just what you have to do. Or not get better, that's always an option.

As far as TT being a frustrating sport, idk. It's very hard to learn, that's definitely true. And progress is not linear, or even visible for long stretches. But I enjoy practicing, so to me it really isn't frustrating any more. Practices are the high points of my week, which says more about my life than about table tennis, but it's a key to getting better too. So if you are frustrated then look at your practices because something is wrong there. Mad because you can't replicate robot shots vs a real ball, then step away from the robot. Seriously, they are worse than useless. Training partners can't give you a challenging practice -- then ditch those losers and find people who can.

It's not easy, and some measures you have to take may appear extreme at first. But practices should be fun. That's essential.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

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Can Russ hit those great topspins in a 3rd ball drill where he serves and gets a known receive to a known location? If not, what does that say about the robot?

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Yeah, Zero beach has Zero loopers, I hear.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

This is all good advise. I think you mis-understood my point tho, at a certain point quality loops seem to become very hard to return. Practice with a single ball becomes frustrating. Multiball is the obvious solution and one that I'm using more and more lately. I see why you think I am blaming them but I'm not. I have a hell of a time with blocking a good attacking ball too. I know I would be lucky to return any of your power loops NL.




I remember you mentioning this and I've added to my practice schedule and reduced the amount I use the robot just from your comments. I still need TT specific fitness anyway but I don't get that from the robot, I never get into a sweat with it. I use the robot between 30 and 120 minutes a week. I only work on improving a stroke or a problem area I'm having. No more than say 5 minutes at a time. Right now I had trouble against heavy back spin balls from a couple of players. So randomly though the evening I'll hit some of those balls. I will use it to make a quick video to see what I'm doing or play around with a technique - I did maybe 10 flat hitting smashes just before bed Sunday night for example. The one last use of the robot is a quick warm up. I'm very slow to get up to speed and it helps to get a few minutes in prior to practice with real people. How did you use the robot?

I love practice too. It's just that there is always a better stroke ahead. Always room for improving. If it was easy I would have quit years ago.

On an entirely different note: if I sell the robot, then I cant justify the table to my wife and that could lead to quitting TT. Having no way to tinker would be a horrible helpless feeling.



You know, I had not even said anything about matches in my post or showed any video of matches to anyone. I've not posted match video or even recorded match video for a long time. I was more referring to the endless cycle of knowledge that I am gaining and how I need to rework my technique again and again.

I realize "Russ" is now a object to discuss the robot and that's fine. I just use it to focus on problem spots.

Russ,

I would suggest you get some room in the budget (with your wife's approval) to get some high level coaching. Or oay for time with a high level hitting partner. As BRS said, it is very hard to improve if you are the best player you hit with on a regular basis. If you hit with a better player omna regular basis, you improve without even accepting that you have. Hitting with someone who wants to improve as much as you do also works as you both get better pushing each other, though that works better if you are both taking lessons. Just about everything else is largely a dead end.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus