OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Have you seen this data set? http://www.ttbla.de/

I checked it before going ahead with my EJ purchase. My recent blades' frequencies have risen from 1150 Sweden Classic to 1250 P700 and now 1350 for the Acoustic Carbon. All relatively slow, but a noticeable difference. Before that I used a TB ZLF at 1400, and the log from the forest, which must be over 1700, judging by the Darker and BBC 9mm single-plys.

Most of the (s)zlc blades are close to 1600. The alc outer-carbon bty blades are 1450-60, tb spirit, tb alc, viscaria, zjk alc. So from your post that's around the upper limit of usable hardness, or already a bit beyond.

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Yoko Ono

I should have explained that the numbers were crowdsourced by players bouncing a ball on a bare blade, recording it using the same app, and choosing the same peak pitch expressed nunerically.

It's all explained in a thread on another forum, that everyone here except you has probably read.

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Yoko Ono

I dunno, I think after several months of adjustment I can play with H3 (regular one, white envelope version, boosted) reasonably well, even in tournaments. At least I would not attribute solely to the rubber any forehands mistakes in the match I posted recently. Let me know if you think otherwise. It is actually pretty fun to play with: for some weird reason it has quite vicious spin. For example, when I do the loop against block drill, my partners usually miss at least 20% more often than when I loop with MX-P, and no one can't explain why.

What drives me nuts is that it is extremely difficult to play against high and semi-high topspin balls with it. The margin for error is very low and it makes playing fishers to be a very painful experience.

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Oh my goodness. This is actually a buck cheaper than the M8. Not only is it in my price range, it's in my weight range as well. And.. it's got "lymphoid face material" .. How can I not order one??

Don't know about the carbon - they can't seem to make up their minds whether it's got carbon in it or not. I mean, yeah, wood has carbon in it, but... this looks like a 7 ply with a Clipper-like 3 ply core.





Another plus - it comes in penhold (I know some people who might want one).

Whether Brett's account got hacked or not.. not much to lose, really, just eight bucks...

Iskandar

What would be the lower bound for speed Brett if a Timo Boll spirit or Viscaria is the upper bound for "good"?

You are obviously a fan of tenergy and not of H3 for non Chinese national team players, what about other ESN modern rubbers?

I've bought myself an Acoustic (not carbon one). It's an attempt to buy the best all wood blade that I won't be tempted to change and is therefore an anti EJ device and I lucky enough that I can afford it. I haven't tried it yet but it clocks in at 1210Hz. This makes it "slower" than my Yasaka Extra, Primorac and Tibhar Stratus Powerwood that I have used before. All nearly the exact same composition. I haven't liked the feel of any carbon blade I have tried including a Timo Boll Spirit. If it feels as good as people say I will try and use it basically forever. Yasaka Extra won at least two world championships (Gatien and Ma Lin) in my lifetime so why would I need faster?

Wooden blades that are "allround" would be the lower end. I don't know specific blade names these days because I don't need to. No one ever buys the lower end of the range anymore. It's just so much easier to buy a blade that's too hard than one that's too soft. For the companies, it's easier to make more profit by selling hard blades to the masses. Slower = cheap and boring, so it's just bad business to promote such products. This means you are much more likely to make a mistake buying a blade that is too hard. People are programmed to relate higher costs with higher quality. Most of the time this programmed human shortcut serves a valuable purpose, but not always. When it comes to TT blades, higher cost often = harder.

Made in Germany (ESN) rubbers are all based on the same technology and the companies/brands are then responsible for their own marketing. The same thing applies to balls and blades which are mostly made in the same Chinese factories. ESN rubber is usable and it doesn't cap your potential like H3. ESN has some problems like it suffers from slippage. It mostly shows up at the elite level when players are pushing the boundaries. It means that when you try to lift a low ball, you experience a slight lack of grip. Put bluntly, the ball slips off and it's probably more noticeable when you are tense in a close match.

I think club players can, and probably should, use ESN rubber, despite what I just wrote above. If you develop good shots, you can certainly improve to the highest level using ESN. It's also quite affordable.

Some BTY rubbers are the best choice, although they are really expensive. Good rubbers include; most Tenergy, Rozena and perhaps Spin Art. For an 1800 player looking to improve his game, Rozena is a pretty good choice. It's often a bit cheaper and has very reasonable characteristics.

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You bought a good blade that sits in the middle of the range. I own 2 blades and one is the Acoustic (not carbon one).

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90 something % of mistakes that players make have nothing to do with the rubber. It's usually because their subconscious brain miscalculates. Somewhere in the right hemisphere, a small error in judgement occurs. There is so much spin and speed on the ball that it's really easy to mess up in TT and that's why the average rally is 2.5 hits, including the serve. We all feel that we have more conscious control that we really have.

Improving your technique and anticipation will improve your level. Miscalculations happen at all levels though.

So why do I say that hard Chinese rubber can cap your improvement? How do you know that it's bad for playing against higher balls? What does that mean? Do you think it's good or bad for blocking? Is it good for playing loop to loop? What is it good for?

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I just looked at the list and I had never seen it before. It looks like an EJ's paradise and it feels reasonably accurate. I'd say it's a good tool.

I'm guessing that my old Viscaria version is 1350-1400, just based on the spreadsheet on the website. To me, the pitch sounds identical to the Acoustic Carbon. I'm surprise to see the TB Spirit so high. Henzell used it during the best years of his career and it always felt perfect to me. Henzell wasn't a fan of hard blades too.

In my original post, I said you can compare any blade with a Spirit, but I personally only test against my old Viscaria. I've never owned a Spirit, though I recommend them to good players and I'd still do so.

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My current theory why it is bad against higher balls is that H3 requires a very thin brushing contact to execute a loop. And it can be awkward to make one against a higher ball. But I could be wrong; I just notice that I make a lot of mistakes with H3 against such balls. It is obviously good for any passive push/chop returns; it feels almost like a defensive rubber, I can chop away from the table with it easily. It is also very fast if boosted, which is very addictive, and that is why I kept it so far. It is one of the worst rubbers for blocking, even boosted. I am not sure about loop to loop as I don't do this much. But I don't think that H3 caps anything, honestly.

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There is a lot of variation between individual blades of the same model, and the data would be a lot more accurate with many more readings, or the year of the blade. But it's useful as a general guide to classes of blade. I won't be buying a Schlager Carbon any time soon. Or any zlc blade. Likewise I don't need to try any more five-ply woods. Or an inner carbon construction, tempting as that sounds, it isn't doing anything more than all wood.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

What about 7 ply? It's interesting that Harimoto and Ma Long at least, use inner carbon type blades.

Brett, you say the hardness of the outer ply is the key factor, what about the flex/stiffness of the blade? Is this not as important?

I always read this about H3, that you have to brush. But then I also read that it requires a very powerful swing to engage the hard sponge.

How does the ball dig into the sponge if the contact is so brushy? Is the brush for looping backspin, and the other for counterlooping?

It didn't take many hits with borrowed H3 for me to realize the only thing it would do for me is end ny career with a shoulder injury. But I'm curious about the apparent contradiction in how it's meant to be used. The youngish Chinese guys I mostly see with H3 don't seem to be doing much brushing to me. From what I can tell as their fhs rocket past me, they are knocking the hell out of the ball, no matter if it comes to them with backspin or topspin.

There are some mysteries about H3 I can't explain. For example, several times I tried the regular 20$ H3 and it felt like a total piece of junk, too slow no matter how much I boosted it. Then a friend of mine gave me something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DHS-Ori ... 34108.html. This rubber feels like a gun when boosted, the speed is definitely on par with T05 and ESN stuff. With regards to brushing, I feel like I have to brush everything: backspin, regular topspin, heavy topspin, even fishing shots (which I hate). If I don't brush, the ball flies off randomly. I don't know how it works, but the balls flies off fast when the contact is right. Blocking with it sucks, there is no feeling for the ball whatsoever. But this is my 1500-level impression, so don't take it too seriously, it is likely irrelevant as I am pretty sure I am doing something wrong

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