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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 07:39 
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wilkinru wrote:
So I suck at the forehand flick.

It's improved from not going on the table to going on the table but not much power. I was playing with the robot and I noticed I do considerably better with a tighter grip than I am usually playing with (it's quite loose) . It's mostly a consistency thing as timing seems to be extremely difficult to execute.

Any thoughts?


Please show us.

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 07:45 
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Barfly wrote:
I have started to regularly practice topspin/no spin variants of my serves as my opponents caught up and adopted to my backspin serves so I am at a stage where I really need variety in order to get a chance for easy points, here is my pendulum topspin attempt:

Front view:
https://youtu.be/Q2d8SV6az9E

Side view:
https://youtu.be/uWiwBjlYAkY

In my mind I am just trying to hit the ball with the upper part of the rubber but I am unsure if I am actually getting it right and if such serve has any real topspin, I rarely get significant popups so a bit uncertain if I am on the right track, thank you for all the help.


Your serve mechanics are good, as they have been for a while.

The serve appears to be sidespin with maybe a slight hint of topspin. You'll probably need to lift your elbow slightly on the forward swing to get more topspin. Can I use your footage to make a ETTS video?

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 07:56 
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ETTS43 and DTT25 are available on ttEDGE.com

ETTS43 is a second video about Ben's backhand topspin and DTT25 will help you to keep balls short in a match.

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 08:02 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Barfly wrote:
I have started to regularly practice topspin/no spin variants of my serves as my opponents caught up and adopted to my backspin serves so I am at a stage where I really need variety in order to get a chance for easy points, here is my pendulum topspin attempt:

Front view:
https://youtu.be/Q2d8SV6az9E

Side view:
https://youtu.be/uWiwBjlYAkY

In my mind I am just trying to hit the ball with the upper part of the rubber but I am unsure if I am actually getting it right and if such serve has any real topspin, I rarely get significant popups so a bit uncertain if I am on the right track, thank you for all the help.


Your serve mechanics are good, as they have been for a while.

The serve appears to be sidespin with maybe a slight hint of topspin. You'll probably need to lift your elbow slightly on the forward swing to get more topspin. Can I use your footage to make a ETTS video?


Sure, be my guest, looking forward to it!

Thank you for the fast feedback, lifting elbow slightly makes sense and I never played with that idea


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 08:23 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Please show us.


it's still uploading at the moment but it'll be here:



Bonus forehand practice footage:



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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 09:09 
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wilkinru wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Please show us.


it's still uploading at the moment but it'll be here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBofv2Kwacc

Bonus forehand practice footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-6mn-tv-lQ


Okay, the forehand topspin is amazing. There's serious torso rotation on those shots.

On the other hand, there's very little torso rotation on the flick. It means that you are using your arm unassisted and that decreases momentum and increases arm variance. The first thing you need to do is turn your hips back before stepping in for the shot. Can I use the footage to make an ETTS video?

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 09:13 
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Barfly wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Barfly wrote:
I have started to regularly practice topspin/no spin variants of my serves as my opponents caught up and adopted to my backspin serves so I am at a stage where I really need variety in order to get a chance for easy points, here is my pendulum topspin attempt:

Front view:
https://youtu.be/Q2d8SV6az9E

Side view:
https://youtu.be/uWiwBjlYAkY

In my mind I am just trying to hit the ball with the upper part of the rubber but I am unsure if I am actually getting it right and if such serve has any real topspin, I rarely get significant popups so a bit uncertain if I am on the right track, thank you for all the help.


Your serve mechanics are good, as they have been for a while.

The serve appears to be sidespin with maybe a slight hint of topspin. You'll probably need to lift your elbow slightly on the forward swing to get more topspin. Can I use your footage to make a ETTS video?


Sure, be my guest, looking forward to it!

Thank you for the fast feedback, lifting elbow slightly makes sense and I never played with that idea


To serve a topspin serve which 'kicks' off the table is a good skill to have. I'll see if I can put it into a video.

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 09:57 
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Brett wrote:

Okay, the forehand topspin is amazing. There's serious torso rotation on those shots.

On the other hand, there's very little torso rotation on the flick. It means that you are using your arm unassisted and that decreases momentum and increases arm variance. The first thing you need to do is turn your hips back before stepping in for the shot. Can I use the footage to make an ETTS video?


As always feel free to ETTS my videos.

I feel the forehand ends a little high but yeah after week 62 it's a weapon.

The forehand flick is on week 3. It's really complex for me. Should the ball be flat? Top spin it? Over the table is a weak area of mine. I need to somehow break this shot down into easier practice bites. At least I'm stepping in with my foot in matches now.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 10:27 
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wilkinru wrote:
Brett wrote:

Okay, the forehand topspin is amazing. There's serious torso rotation on those shots.

On the other hand, there's very little torso rotation on the flick. It means that you are using your arm unassisted and that decreases momentum and increases arm variance. The first thing you need to do is turn your hips back before stepping in for the shot. Can I use the footage to make an ETTS video?


As always feel free to ETTS my videos.

I feel the forehand ends a little high but yeah after week 62 it's a weapon.

The forehand flick is on week 3. It's really complex for me. Should the ball be flat? Top spin it? Over the table is a weak area of mine. I need to somehow break this shot down into easier practice bites. At least I'm stepping in with my foot in matches now.


Maybe you are too far from the ball? That one step in works for Brett, but I'm too short, I have to bring my feet together and then step in. In a match where you are receiving in your bh corner and a serve is way over in the short fh, you aren't going to get there with one step. Also I was coached to get my head down close to the ball and not have my arm at full extension like yours is in the video. Might be something to try out.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 12:48 
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BRS wrote:

Maybe you are too far from the ball? That one step in works for Brett, but I'm too short, I have to bring my feet together and then step in. In a match where you are receiving in your bh corner and a serve is way over in the short fh, you aren't going to get there with one step. Also I was coached to get my head down close to the ball and not have my arm at full extension like yours is in the video. Might be something to try out.


Well I find it's pretty easy to move in and then out with the one step but I do agree it's an issue. The whole thing is pretty awkward feeling. Thanks for the advise and I will try the head lower thing right away. Like many new skills in TT I need to find a way to slow the whole process down and chip away at it.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 23:43 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
To serve a topspin serve which 'kicks' off the table is a good skill to have. I'll see if I can put it into a video.


Indeed. Some people (like myself) can't handle those balls well even when it is obviously heavy topspin.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 01:33 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Barfly wrote:
I have started to regularly practice topspin/no spin variants of my serves as my opponents caught up and adopted to my backspin serves so I am at a stage where I really need variety in order to get a chance for easy points, here is my pendulum topspin attempt:

Front view:
https://youtu.be/Q2d8SV6az9E

Side view:
https://youtu.be/uWiwBjlYAkY

In my mind I am just trying to hit the ball with the upper part of the rubber but I am unsure if I am actually getting it right and if such serve has any real topspin, I rarely get significant popups so a bit uncertain if I am on the right track, thank you for all the help.


Your serve mechanics are good, as they have been for a while.

The serve appears to be sidespin with maybe a slight hint of topspin. You'll probably need to lift your elbow slightly on the forward swing to get more topspin. Can I use your footage to make a ETTS video?


Just wondering: why do TTEdge tutorials emphasize the switch between side-top and side-back for deception? IMHO mostly sidespin and sidespin-backspin should be much easier to switch between without being noticed, especially if the server is not a World-class player. Sidespin-topspin appears to be more difficult to execute whilst keeping the motion similar.

I probably misunderstand something. My topspin serves do not work at all and pretty much anyone can distinguish between side-top and side-back very easily. Vey often when I go to a tournament and play my level, anyone can read my serves like an open book, so all I can do is to vary the degree of backspin. If I serve some junk (side, or side-top) I often get forced into a counterdriving rally that I hate. I will post a video tonight.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 01:59 
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fastmover wrote:
Just wondering: why do TTEdge tutorials emphasize the switch between side-top and side-back for deception? IMHO mostly sidespin and sidespin-backspin should be much easier to switch between without being noticed, especially if the server is not a World-class player. Sidespin-topspin appears to be more difficult to execute whilst keeping the motion similar.

I probably misunderstand something. My topspin serves do not work at all and pretty much anyone can distinguish between side-top and side-back very easily. Vey often when I go to a tournament and play my level, anyone can read my serves like an open book, so all I can do is to vary the degree of backspin. If I serve some junk (side, or side-top) I often get forced into a counterdriving rally that I hate. I will post a video tonight.


The TTEdge app is a better place to look, but I never got that impression. I got the impression that Brett was explaining how to vary the spin and keep the motion similar and the hard work is up to you. Nowadays, I do a smaller version of what I think/hope is Trevor's motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J25_yBuhwPE

By the way, speed of the motion, amount of spin, similarity of the swing and the trajectory of the serve all matter. Trying to deceive people when the motions are clearly different is often going to last less than one point.

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 02:08 
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Yes, all those things matter and I am trying to figure it all out. One possibility is that the serves in matches are way too different from the practice ones due to tensing up under pressure. Let's see.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 03:17 
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I couldn't do a FH pendulum side-top serve that wasn't painfully obvious at 100 yards until Brent's video on where to contact the ball on the racket.

I get a very regular pop up from this serve now, but it's also obvious by how low the pop up comes back, that it's very little topspin.

I never thought of lifting my elbow to assist in topspin generation and I'm looking forward to a new video on a 'kicking' version.

I'll start trying to add a small subtle amount of elbow lift this week and see how that goes.

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