OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 22 Oct 2018, 19:02


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3407 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197 ... 228  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2017, 03:28 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2264
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 519 times
Been thanked: 456 times
Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
FH: Gambler MechTek/T05
BH: Super FX Large Pore/T05
Excellent shot, nice footwork.

I remember seeing you at the NA Teams because PGPG pointed you out to me, but every time I had time to try to introduce myself you were playing. Maybe next time!

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

PostPosted: 23 Dec 2017, 08:35 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 359
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Blade: Stiga Intensity NCT
FH: Hurricane 3
BH: Evolution MX-P
Japsican wrote:
Excellent shot, nice footwork.

I remember seeing you at the NA Teams because PGPG pointed you out to me, but every time I had time to try to introduce myself you were playing. Maybe next time!


Thanks guys! Sure thing, I'll do my best to play next year's teams, that is an epic tourney.

Well my point is that just a few months ago I had zero idea how to pivot against balls when there is no time to comfortably walk around the corner. And I had no chance to figure it out on my own. So knowledge is power.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2017, 08:49 
Online
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 1226
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 151 times
fastmover wrote:
This felt like the most epic pivot I ever hit in my life. A shot like that was impossible 50 pages in this forum ago.



This post makes me feel like playing again!

_________________
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching
YouTube table tennis videos by Brett Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2017, 17:01 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2015, 13:09
Posts: 687
Location: Las Vegas
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 59 times
So I got a tip yesterday that I don't think violates any other rules and seemed to work for me: Against backspin balls, hit the side of the ball a little bit.

Everything else being equal I seemed to have a more consistent experience looping, especially against balls which weren't that long.

It tends to make sense to me for two reasons:
Side of the ball has less spin.
I was able to get more meat(well, rubber) on the ball when it was over the table or half long.

Perhaps it was just my mind doing tricks on me but it did feel better, even on the forehand.

This tip was also extended to top spin balls and maybe it would work there also but I didn't notice much of a difference because almost all top spin balls come out of the table but maybe it would help in getting more contact with the ball.

Thoughts?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2017, 21:44 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 2747
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 261 times
Blade: Tibhar Inca ST
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
I do it all the time and my view is that top pros do it more often than they think they do. I recommend it strongly. It helped me a lot vs backspin and I struggled a lot with topspin until I started doing the same thing.

The key is not to hit the ball particularly on the side but to realize that every stroke has a path. Your path should not make first contact on the back of the ball to hit it but should curve slightly around the side and come over the top. If you hook too much keep playing the same shot until you can minimize the hook or fade to a satisfactory level that keeps the ball straight. I like to think of loops as sometimes doing American football spirals more than straight topspins.

For me the big thing is getting more rubber on the ball and missing far less. For the amount of practice so put In, this is valuable. The more I watch pros, the more I see them doing the same thing. And I think many people do the same things on their best shots but their brains have deceived them to the point they don't notice.

I think the main thing is the helicopter principle and to hit the ball with a turning stroke. The contact point then becomes more on the side as you can't get spin hitting the ball on the back while exposing a huge surface area of your racket to the ball.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 01:59 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 18:58
Posts: 130
Location: Croatia
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Blade: Avalox V1
FH: Xiom Omega VII Europe 2.2
BH: Xiom Omega VII Europe 2.0
NextLevel wrote:
I do it all the time and my view is that top pros do it more often than they think they do. I recommend it strongly. It helped me a lot vs backspin and I struggled a lot with topspin until I started doing the same thing.

The key is not to hit the ball particularly on the side but to realize that every stroke has a path. Your path should not make first contact on the back of the ball to hit it but should curve slightly around the side and come over the top. If you hook too much keep playing the same shot until you can minimize the hook or fade to a satisfactory level that keeps the ball straight. I like to think of loops as sometimes doing American football spirals more than straight topspins.

For me the big thing is getting more rubber on the ball and missing far less. For the amount of practice so put In, this is valuable. The more I watch pros, the more I see them doing the same thing. And I think many people do the same things on their best shots but their brains have deceived them to the point they don't notice.

I think the main thing is the helicopter principle and to hit the ball with a turning stroke. The contact point then becomes more on the side as you can't get spin hitting the ball on the back while exposing a huge surface area of your racketwith consistency lately to the ball.


Really interesting, it would be great to have a video on the subject.

I struggle a lot with consistency lately (large amount of completely whiffed balls and hit edges) and think "getting more rubber on the ball" as you put it might be one of the keys to get more balls on the table.

The thing is I can't really wrap my mind around it yet and bounce between 2 extremes: I either try to brush extremely thinly with a closed bat and hit a lot of edges and whiff a lot, or I try to open my blade but then I often smack and hit the ball instead of brush it.

Will play a bit with ball drops and see if I can figure it out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 02:10 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 2747
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 261 times
Blade: Tibhar Inca ST
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
Barfly wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
I do it all the time and my view is that top pros do it more often than they think they do. I recommend it strongly. It helped me a lot vs backspin and I struggled a lot with topspin until I started doing the same thing.

The key is not to hit the ball particularly on the side but to realize that every stroke has a path. Your path should not make first contact on the back of the ball to hit it but should curve slightly around the side and come over the top. If you hook too much keep playing the same shot until you can minimize the hook or fade to a satisfactory level that keeps the ball straight. I like to think of loops as sometimes doing American football spirals more than straight topspins.

For me the big thing is getting more rubber on the ball and missing far less. For the amount of practice so put In, this is valuable. The more I watch pros, the more I see them doing the same thing. And I think many people do the same things on their best shots but their brains have deceived them to the point they don't notice.

I think the main thing is the helicopter principle and to hit the ball with a turning stroke. The contact point then becomes more on the side as you can't get spin hitting the ball on the back while exposing a huge surface area of your racketwith consistency lately to the ball.


Really interesting, it would be great to have a video on the subject.

I struggle a lot with consistency lately (large amount of completely whiffed balls and hit edges) and think "getting more rubber on the ball" as you put it might be one of the keys to get more balls on the table.

The thing is I can't really wrap my mind around it yet and bounce between 2 extremes: I either try to brush extremely thinly with a closed bat and hit a lot of edges and whiff a lot, or I try to open my blade but then I often smack and hit the ball instead of brush it.

Will play a bit with ball drops and see if I can figure it out.


Just look at any pro hit the ball, you will figure it out. I posted a link on another forum to Mizutani practicing with Koki Niwa at the World Cup. Different stroke philosophies in term sod mechanics but the are both doing the same thing and hitting the ball with a turning stroke.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 02:29 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2015, 13:09
Posts: 687
Location: Las Vegas
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 59 times
Well I've seen enough of NLs forehands to know he gets some side spin on the ball :)

I will make a real effort against top spin. I really think this tweak to my technique will help against pips players and anyone who will push a ball back to me. Thanks for the feedback NL and I will continue working with it. I think the nice thing is that it doesn't violate any technique that's been on TTedge and TTedge practice just makes it easy because the whip is already there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 03:22 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 2747
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 261 times
Blade: Tibhar Inca ST
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
This is the video I was talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8m5sBZQnKw

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 03:28 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 2747
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 261 times
Blade: Tibhar Inca ST
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
wilkinru wrote:
Well I've seen enough of NLs forehands to know he gets some side spin on the ball :)

I will make a real effort against top spin. I really think this tweak to my technique will help against pips players and anyone who will push a ball back to me. Thanks for the feedback NL and I will continue working with it. I think the nice thing is that it doesn't violate any technique that's been on TTedge and TTedge practice just makes it easy because the whip is already there.


It's more accidental than intentional, but it's the only way I know to hit the ball consistently. Anything else I try, I miss too often, so it would take some radical brain recalibration.

And it is still clearly a topspin ball as you can see in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M1eIw85CD8

Danny Seemiller said in a book that even a good regular forehand topspin will have like 15% sidespin, and I didn't know what that meant for a long time. But I think I now do.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 04:02 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2264
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 519 times
Been thanked: 456 times
Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
FH: Gambler MechTek/T05
BH: Super FX Large Pore/T05
NextLevel wrote:
Danny Seemiller said in a book that even a good regular forehand topspin will have like 15% sidespin, and I didn't know what that meant for a long time. But I think I now do.

Very interesting...

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 04:12 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 2747
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 261 times
Blade: Tibhar Inca ST
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
https://butterflyonline.com/modern-topspin-strokes/

This is an article on the stroke. The Mizutani video originally linked is missing, but you can get an idea from what I am saying. The relevant part:

"An interesting thing to notice with these two players is that Boll is a bit older than Mizutani, which shows somewhat in the way they contact the ball. Whereas Mizutani is hitting the ball quite solidly before grazing up and forward to produce topspin, Boll grazes the ball much more finely right from the first moment of contact. This is another example of how the topspin stroke has evolved, especially in very recent years. Unless you are using a very hard sponge, like Chinese rubber, allowing yourself to hit the ball solidly and then starting to graze right after first contact can produce a bit more speed and power without sacrificing consistency, and with the changes in rules and equipment most players are no longer grazing the ball as finely on their loops."

I would say that you can do this even with a Chinese rubber but that is just me - most Chinese rubbers today are so boosted that they are like Euro rubbers more than they used to be. Just hit the ball with a turning motion. On the backhand, it is even more critical as people trying to brush on the backhand tend to just miss the ball outright. Then I have to teach them to hit the ball and follow through all with a turning swing and they then get an idea of how to remain consistent without missing.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2017, 14:56 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 2747
Has thanked: 254 times
Been thanked: 261 times
Blade: Tibhar Inca ST
FH: MX-S 1.9 B
BH: MX-S 1.9 R
T
NextLevel wrote:
https://butterflyonline.com/modern-topspin-strokes/

This is an article on the stroke. The Mizutani video originally linked is missing, but you can get an idea from what I am saying. The relevant part:

"An interesting thing to notice with these two players is that Boll is a bit older than Mizutani, which shows somewhat in the way they contact the ball. Whereas Mizutani is hitting the ball quite solidly before grazing up and forward to produce topspin, Boll grazes the ball much more finely right from the first moment of contact. This is another example of how the topspin stroke has evolved, especially in very recent years. Unless you are using a very hard sponge, like Chinese rubber, allowing yourself to hit the ball solidly and then starting to graze right after first contact can produce a bit more speed and power without sacrificing consistency, and with the changes in rules and equipment most players are no longer grazing the ball as finely on their loops."

I would say that you can do this even with a Chinese rubber but that is just me - most Chinese rubbers today are so boosted that they are like Euro rubbers more than they used to be. Just hit the ball with a turning motion. On the backhand, it is even more critical as people trying to brush on the backhand tend to just miss the ball outright. Then I have to teach them to hit the ball and follow through all with a turning swing and they then get an idea of how to remain consistent without missing.


The Mizutani video that was originally in the article above is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSKKANwSB9M

You can see Mizutani making firm contact with a turning stroke on the side. This is how I mentally try to approach the ball, it is a physics problem that your brain can solve if you give it a chance too. The main benefit for me is that exposing a larger surface area of my racket to the ball while getting enough spin to remain consistent.

I am not recommending you swing shallow, you can loop like this without coming across your body below head height. I am recommending that people who can give it a shot learn the more solid contact and follow through. You can brush this way as well, I do it a lot too when I Want more spin. But usually, I just don't want to whiff the ball and this contact point is more reliable for me.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2017, 16:17 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2015, 13:09
Posts: 687
Location: Las Vegas
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 59 times
Yeah suddenly I have a backhand flick. Just like that. All of this brush/loop/legs/hips practice comes together once you get the contact solid and more reliable. That's why it's so interesting - it really fits in with the rest of TTedge.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 16:05 
Online
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 1226
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 151 times
LTT94 is now available on ttEDGE.com

It is another serve video and I use the content everyday in my coaching. I haven't found a lot of top players using such mechanics, but I know it has really helped my serve, and others.

In relation to the above posts, it's can help to put sidespin on the ball to lift backspin. It's not something I go out of my way to teach as I'm more like to go down the LTT93 path.

_________________
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching
YouTube table tennis videos by Brett Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3407 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197 ... 228  Next


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brett Clarke, darucla, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: