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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 09:08 
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fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
A random thought: I wonder if LTT86's mantra "left hip-right hip-finish over the eyes" can be applied to serving. Something like "left hip-right hip-shake into the ball".


Yep. Once you understand how torso rotation assists the arm, you can say anything you want.


Well, I wish there was a way to find out if I understand this thing properly or not :D


You can always let a "Dummy" teach you! https://photos.app.goo.gl/r4groKwovGmo1M352

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 09:15 
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Okay, gotta send some practice videos to the Dummy.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 10:10 
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fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
A random thought: I wonder if LTT86's mantra "left hip-right hip-finish over the eyes" can be applied to serving. Something like "left hip-right hip-shake into the ball".


Yep. Once you understand how torso rotation assists the arm, you can say anything you want.


Well, I wish there was a way to find out if I understand this thing properly or not :D


Maybe watching the action of your ball after it bounces on the other side is a way to tell. Look at Jesse's shots kick off Brett's side when Brett cuts to that angle. My shots don't kick like that, so I have a feeling I'm not fully understanding it.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 12:19 
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BRS wrote:

Maybe watching the action of your ball after it bounces on the other side is a way to tell. Look at Jesse's shots kick off Brett's side when Brett cuts to that angle. My shots don't kick like that, so I have a feeling I'm not fully understanding it.


Could be a good idea. But for us it should be a multiball excercise to test the power. Hitting 1-1 against block at the Jesse's pace requires very high level footwork and anticipation skills in addition to shot mechanics.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 01:17 
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BRS wrote:

Maybe watching the action of your ball after it bounces on the other side is a way to tell. Look at Jesse's shots kick off Brett's side when Brett cuts to that angle. My shots don't kick like that, so I have a feeling I'm not fully understanding it.


I really hope you are being facetious. Pro level racket head speed is beautiful to behold whenever you see it. In a live match, you hardly hear the ball bounce and you almost feel as if the contact with the racket is often (Relatively) silent. You can hear whooshing from the racket swings and the balls in the practice halls.

When you hear whooshing on strokes and the ball flight, your shots will kick like that. And that is not about understanding, it takes a fair amount of gym work too.

We have a guy in Princeton (I posted a video of my match against him on this thread a while back) who has a ridiculously powerful forehand. It gets more and more powerful because he goes to the gym and puts in a lot of work on his legs and quads. I warned one of my friends about it at the Teams and after his match with this guy, he said I Wasn't kidding that he only remembered blocking one forehand successfully in the entire match and wondered what the guy was using for equipment.

So when you have calves and thighs like Jesse, you can also expect your shots to kick like that.

BTW, your forehand is one of the most powerful I have seen from an amateur player. Your low stance and body usage actually makes the shot travel through the table more similarly to what the pros get.

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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 03:10 
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NextLevel wrote:
When you hear whooshing on strokes and the ball flight, your shots will kick like that. And that is not about understanding, it takes a fair amount of gym work too.


This sums up why rubber manufacturers put the 'intermediate level' label on softer sponges and 'expert level' on the harder sponges. Need to have enough power to get the ball in the sponge. If you can, you get a major benefit.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 05:05 
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NextLevel wrote:
So when you have calves and thighs like Jesse, you can also expect your shots to kick like that.


That would be never. Thanks a lot for bursting my balloon.

Seriously, there are some small people who get ridiculous spin and power on their shots, and a much larger group who have lots of muscles but never make those awesome shots. So even were I to eat my spinach and grow them muscles, I don't think my shots would automatically come along too.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 06:49 
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BRS wrote:

Seriously, there are some small people who get ridiculous spin and power on their shots, and a much larger group who have lots of muscles but never make those awesome shots. So even were I to eat my spinach and grow them muscles, I don't think my shots would automatically come along too.


Well you've only been using the improved Brett style forehand for a couple of years at most. I'm sure it's improved over that time span. We're all learning about hips and legs and rotation to create bat speed so it's quite likely it will improve further.

Do you think your forehand has improved over the last couple of years?

NL said something along the lines of "if you've been looping for a year or so you likely don't really have the feel for it yet" and I think that's quite true. It takes time to really understand looping if you didn't start with it right away.

Winning may be the objective but ball quality gets you there.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 07:00 
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wilkinru wrote:
BRS wrote:

Seriously, there are some small people who get ridiculous spin and power on their shots, and a much larger group who have lots of muscles but never make those awesome shots. So even were I to eat my spinach and grow them muscles, I don't think my shots would automatically come along too.


Well you've only been using the improved Brett style forehand for a couple of years at most. I'm sure it's improved over that time span. We're all learning about hips and legs and rotation to create bat speed so it's quite likely it will improve further.

Do you think your forehand has improved over the last couple of years?

NL said something along the lines of "if you've been looping for a year or so you likely don't really have the feel for it yet" and I think that's quite true. It takes time to really understand looping if you didn't start with it right away.

Winning may be the objective but ball quality gets you there.


If you watched Ben's matches, you'd see that his fh topspin is a lot better than his peers. Ben always puts a negative spin on his own game.

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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 07:18 
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wilkinru wrote:
BRS wrote:

Seriously, there are some small people who get ridiculous spin and power on their shots, and a much larger group who have lots of muscles but never make those awesome shots. So even were I to eat my spinach and grow them muscles, I don't think my shots would automatically come along too.


Well you've only been using the improved Brett style forehand for a couple of years at most. I'm sure it's improved over that time span. We're all learning about hips and legs and rotation to create bat speed so it's quite likely it will improve further.

Do you think your forehand has improved over the last couple of years?

NL said something along the lines of "if you've been looping for a year or so you likely don't really have the feel for it yet" and I think that's quite true. It takes time to really understand looping if you didn't start with it right away.

Winning may be the objective but ball quality gets you there.


You may have missed the part where I said that Ben has one of the best forehand topspin I have ever seen for an amateur player. I wouldn't be too far off saying that his full blast is a technically sounder and more powerful shot than mine, I just hit with more variation and experience and am more accepting of my limitations.

My main point was that complaining that one doesn't have pro level output is a waste of time if one is not a pro doing all the things a pro should do. Technical deficiencies are all relative. Mizutani and Boll are top players using technique that Chinese coaches mock all the time.

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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 11:59 
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It is a common advice to turn the right foot (for a rightie) outwards on the forehand backswing. I've just realized why: if the foot is turned outwards, it is very natural to push with it to the side and throw one's body into the spin. If the foot points towards the tableit is almost impossible to do so.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 12:08 
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I might have said this before but it is most important for the feet to point outwards or be at 90 degrees to each other or more. Back then you said I was exaggerating.

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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 12:19 
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Well my point is that when I tried to make sure my right foot was pointing outwards I was imitating the form without understanding the content. Due to rudimentary leg rotation the foot movement didn't assist the stroke much. I guess the same should stand for the serve, and I used to serve with my feet parallel.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2017, 07:00 
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https://youtu.be/3DheWtQLoEo?t=182

After the backhanded discussions recently I watched this section of the above video again and realized how it all made sense.
I will just focus on Kanak Jha (the other guy might be too close to home for this thread!)

Kanak obviously comes down on the back swing and then up as he contacts the ball. I also notice just how far back his wrist is and then bat speed he gets as he snaps on to the ball. It's pretty amazing to see. The video isn't high enough frame rate to really see it.
He perhaps finishes the stroke early and his racket never gets close to pointing towards the wall - or is this the new norm for pros?

I notice now that leaning down at the start of the swing really aids with the back swing and even aids a larger back swing. My backhand loop off of backspin has never been better (one of the shots that gives me enough time) and hopefully I can do it with all of my backhands with enough practice.

Besides serve recovery/serve return this shall be my focus. I feel this is just so important to improve.

I'm afraid to revisit other TTedge videos to see what I missed the first, second, third viewing.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2017, 14:13 
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wilkinru wrote:
https://youtu.be/3DheWtQLoEo?t=182


He perhaps finishes the stroke early and his racket never gets close to pointing towards the wall - or is this the new norm for pros?


It's a different way of approaching the shot. Jha uses more body than Powell. Powell hits the ball later in his wrist rotation than Jha. See here: https://youtu.be/3DheWtQLoEo?t=322

Henzell also used less body and more wrist rotation (similar shot to Powell) and he was close to unbeatable near to the table on the backhand side. Henzell wasn't so strong away from the table. You be the judge.

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