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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2017, 14:15 
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fastmover wrote:
Well my point is that when I tried to make sure my right foot was pointing outwards I was imitating the form without understanding the content. Due to rudimentary leg rotation the foot movement didn't assist the stroke much. I guess the same should stand for the serve, and I used to serve with my feet parallel.


Your feet should be parallel to the table on the serve.

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 04:01 
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How important is it to having your elbow out to the side and forward after serving (serve recovery)?
Ive been wondering why I whiff so many third balls on my bh and have no power on my third ball strokes recently. I thought the issue was primarily my feet not moving but having looked at the video I think my poor elbow position bares the most blame. thoughts and comments are appreciated.

just as example watch the first two points (3.50).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_JMnbTiUpo


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 08:13 
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big d wrote:
How important is it to having your elbow out to the side and forward after serving (serve recovery)?
Ive been wondering why I whiff so many third balls on my bh and have no power on my third ball strokes recently. I thought the issue was primarily my feet not moving but having looked at the video I think my poor elbow position bares the most blame. thoughts and comments are appreciated.

just as example watch the first two points (3.50).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_JMnbTiUpo


I think you just stay too close to the table. Take a look at LTT90.

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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 08:15 
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ETTS44 and DTT27 are now available on ttEDGE.com

ETTS44 is about serving with more topspin as per the conversation on this forum. DTT27 is basic 3rd ball attack.

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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 08:26 
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Now we need a video on how to flick heavy topspin serve. With banana it is obvious that I have to brush over the ball, but what about a flat flick? During the Thanksgiving Teams tourney I played a few penholders that had massively kicking serves and all I could was to block them back while softening my grip as much as possible. Lucky for me, it was enough to win. But whenever I tried to do anything active, the ball went into the ceiling.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 08:35 
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fastmover wrote:
Now we need a video on how to flick heavy topspin serve. With banana it is obvious that I have to brush over the ball, but what about a flat flick? During the Thanksgiving Teams tourney I played a few penholders that had massively kicking serves and all I could was to block them back while softening my grip as much as possible. Lucky for me, it was enough to win. But whenever I tried to do anything active, the ball went into the ceiling.


Just practice. It's one of those things that even if someone tells you how to do It, the racket angle eill not show up in your matches unless you practice it. Like learning to play vs long pips. And you can become proficient at it just by missing many balls practicing and adjusting as long as you have the right technique ( which you already do).

The one thing I will say is that a spinny ball had a lot of energy and kick off your racket if you don't adjust to the spin.

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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 08:42 
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Ok, let me be more concrete. If I have a super topspinny short ball at my forehand, should the contact be flat as against other balls? I feel like if I place the racket behind the ball, it will always go off. At the same time when I watch pro matches it feels like they slightly brush over the top of the ball to neutralize the spin and make the ball go down a bit. I could be wrong though.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 08:55 
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fastmover wrote:
Ok, let me be more concrete. If I have a super topspinny short ball at my forehand, should the contact be flat as against other balls? I feel like if I place the racket behind the ball, it will always go off. At the same time when I watch pro matches it feels like they slightly brush over the top of the ball to neutralize the spin and make the ball go down a bit. I could be wrong though.


The contact with inverted is rarely truly flat and flat doesn't mean open. Flat means you don't brush the ball too much. Flat also means that you don't finish high to add lots of topspin. Flat doesn't mean you can't hit the top of the ball. Flat doesn't mean you shouldn't angle your paddle.

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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 11:08 
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fastmover wrote:
Ok, let me be more concrete. If I have a super topspinny short ball at my forehand, should the contact be flat as against other balls? I feel like if I place the racket behind the ball, it will always go off. At the same time when I watch pro matches it feels like they slightly brush over the top of the ball to neutralize the spin and make the ball go down a bit. I could be wrong though.


It might be "flat" but I'd guess you would be chopping down on the ball. You can see players struggle against FZD or Timo's reverse pendulum serve, which apparently has lots of top spin as they attempt to chop it back short enough to not be loop killed.

I've always believed the short heavy top spin serve to be the most difficult to master, even with side spin. Go a little long and get attacked but go short enough and it's a great serve. I personally haven't even run into players who have that serve except on the occasional accident. Well I can think of one guy who could but I haven't seen him in months and he also used a reverse pendulum.

ETTS44 shows a pretty darn obvious serve. No deception there.

Edit: Also a serve I couldn't do after trying for 10 minutes. So there's that :) After second review, ball location on the server's side has to be fairly close to the edge, unlike backspin which is close to the net.


Last edited by wilkinru on 04 Dec 2017, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 11:33 
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We have a dude in the club who can make a kicker serve, but it always goes long. I am trying to convince him to learn to serve short, but to no avail -- he still beats me if I loop his serves :D At least I can practice looping it, which is not that easy either.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 12:03 
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fastmover wrote:
We have a dude in the club who can make a kicker serve, but it always goes long. I am trying to convince him to learn to serve short, but to no avail -- he still beats me if I loop his serves :D At least I can practice looping it, which is not that easy either.


Yeah I've got 2 of those guys at my club, huge kickers but deep and they can put them just about anywhere. They get so many points from it that a valid plan is to just back up a bit and get it back on the table with some topspin. They actually don't do so well if it comes back (I can relate to this!). Took me a while to learn how to return it still. I'm not really looping them yet. Just using the pace they give and making easy brushes.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 22:17 
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I remember when I was 1700 and I played a guy. I couldn't block a single one of his backhand loops once he got going. He had this huge backhand topspin.

I played him again 2 years later when I Was 1900 (almost 2000). I wondered why I thought his backhand topspin was so heavy when I Was 1700.

Moral of the story - many things in table tennis are relative to where you are at the current time.

To be fair though, some of you may want to watch the Yijun Feng - Mark Hazinski match that was the US men's final a couple of years back. There you will see a top player fail to read and flip a topspin serve over and over again. Might make you feel better and see why practice is more critical than mentally understanding it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boGQ5eRIdug

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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 12:47 
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In training with tttedges hip and swing mechanics I can get a fast swing on forehand and backhand and a quality shot. However, due to lack of anticipation and substandard footwork, it breaks down in a match and I can become inconsistent.

I am working on anticipation and footwork in training but I feel it is going to take 6 months to improve.

I was told by a coach to reduce the swing speed and go more for placement and control and wait for a slower ball to go more full out.
A fast swing is more uncapped and I feel has the potential of a higher level with a lot more training.

So which approach should I take in a game? A fast swing and inconsistent or a slower swing and more consistent?


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 13:59 
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Duplicate.

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Last edited by NextLevel on 07 Dec 2017, 13:35, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 13:59 
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Slower swing and more consistent as long as the whip mechanics are in place and you develop good timing. I don't know your playing level but in my experience the players who try to hit the ball hard use as adults use it as an excuse to hide their fear of rallying. But until you learn to hit the ball with consistent topspin and accept the rally you have to hope that your power is sufficient to hit the ball for winners every time and your serves have to be on point to great the opportunities. This is unrealistic for most adults.

More reasonable is to develop a rally mode with slower but adequate strokes that put the ball on the table. Then you can play powerful shots when you are at the ball on time or the ball is slower as your coach said or the ball is easy for you to read.

As your anticipation and technique get better these rally strokes become more powerful and explosive. You also learn better muscle activation sequences so that you are not out of place when the game slows down vs a pips player for example.

Trying to get my highest level student to play medium paced tally shots has been my biggest struggle. His game is either power topspin or push. He has zero confidence playing a long rally and expecting the other player to miss first if it is a topspin duel. But this is a skill you have to develop as at s certain level unless you have fantastic footwork and place many , higher level defence will force you to play multiple shots

So in the end play at a pace where your recovery is guaranteed and increase the quality you can play at that pace. Don't hide your fear of rallying by playing with power you can't recover from. Unless your footwork and placement are perfect , that game is difficult and capped if it is forced by a fear of rallying as opposed to a multitude of easy opportunities.

Brett has an ETTS I think 34 where he reviews my Ltt47 kill shot and points out that I overused it. That's the relevant point here. Learn to spin and recover reasonably and play good 70% shots.

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