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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2018, 22:38 
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BRS wrote:
My not humble opinion is that both wings are good but you suck in transition. To start game 1 you were clearly sitting on the bh, probably because you were serving bh and not turning your feet after. So your bhs were great and your fhs were garbage. Partway through you switched to sitting on the fh and started resetting your feet and then your fhs were great (really spinny and safe), but your bh turned to garbage.

After that you mainly played fhs from all over, pivoting a lot. That was great vs this guy, but you don't have the footwork or athleticism to do that all the time. No offense meant please, honesty is best, and god knows I can't play all fhs either, we aren't XX here on the forum.

So imo, going all TJ and trying to change your strokes or contact point would be a big ole waste of time. When you are set in good position your strokes are beautiful, when you aren't they suck. So if I were you I'd be doing a ton of bh-fh transition drills, and practicing resetting to a neutral foot/body/arm/hand position after serving, and every stroke.


Man, it would be easier if you didn't troll on this particular thread. I could point out that you are probably blind if you consider his forehamd spinny but i guess it is all about perspective. I don't know the rating level of the opponent but I do believe that Russ should be able to hit powerful enough shots not to be stuck in extended rallies with this opponent. Transition is very important but I disagree with you that his forehand and backhand are fine. Aspects of them are great but the ball quality leaves a lot to be desired from where I sit if he is getting into extended rallies with this level of opponent or missing lots of dead balls by putting them high and long.

It's also not about athleticism as he was not playing a two winged looper/attacker. You will need to play more forehand against opponents like this at every level unless you are just an exceptionally backhand oriented player.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2018, 23:12 
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NextLevel wrote:
BRS wrote:
My not humble opinion is that both wings are good but you suck in transition. To start game 1 you were clearly sitting on the bh, probably because you were serving bh and not turning your feet after. So your bhs were great and your fhs were garbage. Partway through you switched to sitting on the fh and started resetting your feet and then your fhs were great (really spinny and safe), but your bh turned to garbage.

After that you mainly played fhs from all over, pivoting a lot. That was great vs this guy, but you don't have the footwork or athleticism to do that all the time. No offense meant please, honesty is best, and god knows I can't play all fhs either, we aren't XX here on the forum.

So imo, going all TJ and trying to change your strokes or contact point would be a big ole waste of time. When you are set in good position your strokes are beautiful, when you aren't they suck. So if I were you I'd be doing a ton of bh-fh transition drills, and practicing resetting to a neutral foot/body/arm/hand position after serving, and every stroke.


Man, it would be easier if you didn't troll on this particular thread. I could point out that you are probably blind if you consider his forehamd spinny but i guess it is all about perspective. I don't know the rating level of the opponent but I do believe that Russ should be able to hit powerful enough shots not to be stuck in extended rallies with this opponent. Transition is very important but I disagree with you that his forehand and backhand are fine. Aspects of them are great but the ball quality leaves a lot to be desired from where I sit if he is getting into extended rallies with this level of opponent or missing lots of dead balls by putting them high and long.

It's also not about athleticism as he was not playing a two winged looper/attacker. You will need to play more forehand against opponents like this at every level unless you are just an exceptionally backhand oriented player.


His opponent was rated ~1650 and that was his worst loss of the tournament (presumably Russ's best win too :) ). As I said before, he can give fits to higher rated players if match up is right, e.g. opponent is not that familiar with attacking pips ball. I struggle against him.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2018, 23:48 
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It's ludicrous to accuse me of trolling when I gave a completely constructive criticism that Russ could easily work on and improve. I have every bit as much right to post on this thread as you or anybody else, try to remember that.

As far as spinny or not, the balls were good enough to take control of the point. The errors or weak balls I saw were almost all related to sitting on one wing with hand and feet not neutral to play a ball to either side. If the goal is to win O40 at the WVC, by all means keep working on strokes in isolation, the ball quality is not good enough for that. If the goal is to win more matches and get to a 1700+ rating, then work on transition with the strokes you have. They are easily good enough to play 1700, if you can execute them properly no matter where the ball crosses your endline.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2018, 23:56 
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BRS wrote:
It's ludicrous to accuse me of trolling when I gave a completely constructive criticism that Russ could easily work on and improve. I have every bit as much right to post on this thread as you or anybody else, try to remember that.

As far as spinny or not, the balls were good enough to take control of the point. The errors or weak balls I saw were almost all related to sitting on one wing with hand and feet not neutral to play a ball to either side. If the goal is to win O40 at the WVC, by all means keep working on strokes in isolation, the ball quality is not good enough for that. If the goal is to win more matches and get to a 1700+ rating, then work on transition with the strokes you have. They are easily good enough to play 1700, if you can execute them properly no matter where the ball crosses your endline.


Denigrating the advice other people give is trolling, you can make your points without doing that. Sorry if my point was communicated in such convoluted posting that you missed it. Thanks. You have equal right to post but not equal right to denigrate the advice of others.

The consistency of the strokes was decent but the power left a little to be desired. I don't disagree with your evaluation of the points , just pointing out no need to denigrate mine to make yours. Hopefully I am making better sense now. Sorry if any other meaning was communicated.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2018, 00:02 
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About the athleticism thing - playing all forehands because you can, or the opponent's style calls for it is great. Playing all forehands because you can't switch fluently between forehand and backhand strokes in a rally is an easily exploitable weakness.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2018, 00:16 
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Politely disagreeing is not denigrating, except to you, because in your mind you are never wrong. Calling someone a blind troll, on the other hand, is pretty damn rude.

Anyway, I apologize, you were right and I was wrong. I don't need to be in this thread any more. It's not worth the hassle. Have a beautiful day.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2018, 02:15 
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BRS wrote:
My not humble opinion is that both wings are good but you suck in transition. To start game 1 you were clearly sitting on the bh, probably because you were serving bh and not turning your feet after. So your bhs were great and your fhs were garbage. Partway through you switched to sitting on the fh and started resetting your feet and then your fhs were great (really spinny and safe), but your bh turned to garbage.

After that you mainly played fhs from all over, pivoting a lot. That was great vs this guy, but you don't have the footwork or athleticism to do that all the time. No offense meant please, honesty is best, and god knows I can't play all fhs either, we aren't XX here on the forum.

So imo, going all TJ and trying to change your strokes or contact point would be a big ole waste of time. When you are set in good position your strokes are beautiful, when you aren't they suck. So if I were you I'd be doing a ton of bh-fh transition drills, and practicing resetting to a neutral foot/body/arm/hand position after serving, and every stroke.


My practice partners have pretty much said this too. Pretty solid advice to me. I agree with the resetting and the footwork part entirely. Sure against this guy I got to hit forehands all day because he let me. I have a habit of watching my shot after I'm done with the stroke because I'm used to it not coming back! Playing better people will help this of course.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2018, 02:22 
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BRS wrote:
Politely disagreeing is not denigrating, except to you, because in your mind you are never wrong. Calling someone a blind troll, on the other hand, is pretty damn rude.

Anyway, I apologize, you were right and I was wrong. I don't need to be in this thread any more. It's not worth the hassle. Have a beautiful day.


I hope you stick around BRS. I think everyone has given some useful advice, tho I think yours so far has been the lowest hanging fruit.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2018, 02:45 
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BRS will always contribute. And I have absolutely nothing against the content of his advice. Playing forehand and backhand in the same looping drill is relatively rare for players below 1800 who don't have formal coaching. I do think that this particular opponent is similar to a chopper and against a chopper, you have time to play forehands all the time etc. But I drill transition play with my students a lot because there is nothing more common in my experience watching students play than people drilling strokes at playing distances and in situations where they will never use them.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2018, 07:06 
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After hitting today and after the comments...yeah my transition is pretty poor. I feel rushed and execute half ass shots. I'll focus on transition and the footwork during training.

Drill suggestions?


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2018, 02:46 
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wilkinru wrote:
After hitting today and after the comments...yeah my transition is pretty poor. I feel rushed and execute half ass shots. I'll focus on transition and the footwork during training.

Drill suggestions?


The blocker places two balls to your backhand, then two balls to your forehand, repeat. Once you feel comfortable, blocker places one or two to your backhand, then one or two to your forehand, repeat. The most difficult part of the drill is to find a good blocker.


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2018, 03:16 
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fastmover wrote:
The most difficult part of the drill is to find a good blocker.


Sure is.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 09:23 
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I keep learning on how to loop lousy half-long serves. One thing I notice is that against such serve it is very difficult to make a spinny shot. Because I have to almost literally creep under the table, I feel like it is very awkward to turn my shoulders a lot, which results in limited spin. If the serve is heavy backspin, then I can borrow the spin and still bamboozle the opponent to block off the end. But if the serve is no-spin or top-side-spin (which is the worst option), I have to create all the spin on my own. Sometimes I play flat counterhitters, which are happy with my half-ass recieve. They figure out that it is better to not serve backspin, just half-long topspin and then jump into their favourite flat driving rallies that I hate. Is there any advice on dealing with it? I started to experiment with sidespin loops, to wide angles, especially hook to the FH, which works sometimes, but I don't know if it is the way to go.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 10:47 
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When practicing serve return in the beginning, focus on the mechanics of the elbow and to a secondary degree the wrist. Use your racket angle and wrist work to compensate for spin and speed and only drop the wrist below the table if the serve is backspin.

The most important thing if the serve is backspin is to generate the friction. This requires good rubber and a fast wrist action in my experience. The same for no spin if you use a heavy spin approach to it. But avoid using the shoulder when looping half long balls or serves in general. You are looping closer to the table so finishing too high can send the ball long. So always focus on adding spin or finishing forward.

With topspin and sidespin, the most important thing is to avoid dropping the racket. This is important vs half long serves in general but extremely important vs sidespin. Try to make contact with a back to forward swing and the finishing your stroke over the ball.

I tend to win points with a well placed fast brush loop. That's why I like extremely grippy linear hard sponge Euro rubbers like MX-S, Omega V Asia and Tenergy. As long as I make contact I am confident I will pick up the ball with spin.

That's my verbal tutorial. For any more specific advice, I need to see video.

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 11:07 
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wilkinru wrote:
After hitting today and after the comments...yeah my transition is pretty poor. I feel rushed and execute half ass shots. I'll focus on transition and the footwork during training.

Drill suggestions?


So I have been working with my student on transition for may be 6 months or so. He likes to admire his shot after taking it and for some ridiculous reason that must be grounded in a great childhood experience, rushes with glee when he sees a high ball. So we started with drills where he is forced to recover go ready position or do something in the middle of his stroke before taking the next shot. For example you can so multiball but between every shot you have to tap the table with your paddle in order to interrupt your feeling that you must recover immediately to where you anticipate the ball is going to.

The other thing is to get multiball or a good blocker and practice transition without moving.get a ball yo your backhand and to your forehand that you don't have to move to and just play the shots.

Another thing to note is that transition has a link to shot quality. My transition sucked for a long time yet it was hard to expose my issues in a game. That was because I could pin people down with backhand shots so fast and spinny that they never wanted to risk blocking long down the line. When you play a weak ball and you get lost in transition, don't blame your transition, blame the ball that gave the opponent the opportunity to misdirect you.

At game speed you will often be rushed and play half assed shots. It's the shots that come to a point on the table that you should be able to play if you had recovered after your shot that you want to complain about. Again shot quality plays a role here because if you put energy on the ball, your opponent usually can only take so much energy off the ball and you can often use a decent short stroke to play the next shot. But a weaker first shot can lead to a fast flat return that leaves you scrambling to cover a bad angle.

In the beginning your priority should be to be able to transition to a weak ball played to the wing you are not ready for at random. You start by training the feeling of general transition by playing routine forehands and backhand close to the table. Them you do the drill that fast mover mentioned where most balls are coming to one wing and then you have to deal with a slower ball to the other wing.

The main culprits of bad transition are

1. Grip changes.
2. Extreme stances for shots or the inability to play most shots out of a fairly similar stance.
3. Poor anticipation.
4. Poor prior shot quality.
5. Bad recovery after prior shot.
6. Going out of balance to play shots without balancing the risk with the reward.

Hopefully this will give you ideas for diagnosing and improving your transition issues. In order to simplify my play, I modified a lot of my strokes and grips so I could minimise the transitions I needed to make to play different strokes.

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