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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 02:03 
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Heming could you please rotate your video with the pivots so we can see better? You can rotate video in YouTube's the video manager, then "enhancements" tool.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 02:49 
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BTW, what is up with the panel/meeting? I think it makes sense to do it on a weekend, either this or next one.


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2018, 16:33 
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Heming Hu wrote:

Goes to show how far good technique, timing and the 2-step process can take you


Hi Heming,

Could you please confirm that, by "the 2-step process", you are referring to what Brett demonstrates in LTT80, namely:

Bow Down / Straighten or, better still, Hips Backward / Hips Forward.

Also, thanks so much for your recent input.


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2018, 18:56 
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fastmover wrote:
Heming could you please rotate your video with the pivots so we can see better? You can rotate video in YouTube's the video manager, then "enhancements" tool.



Done. by the time you see the video, it should be rotated to the correct orientation. I may be a 90's child, but I suck with computers and technologies other than a mobile phone


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2018, 19:03 
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elbowed wrote:
Heming Hu wrote:

Goes to show how far good technique, timing and the 2-step process can take you


Hi Heming,

Could you please confirm that, by "the 2-step process", you are referring to what Brett demonstrates in LTT80, namely:

Bow Down / Straighten or, better still, Hips Backward / Hips Forward.

Also, thanks so much for your recent input.




Hi Elbowed,
Yes the 2-step process does refer to what Brett demonstrates as a "Bow". Specifically, meaning to bow down and up on the backhand.


Apologies to the whole forum for my inactivity and earlier promise of my demonstration of the good placements of shots/pivots. I recorded my practice sessions on the weekend. However, i put the camera in a bad angle where you cant really see the effects that my well placed shots have, on the opponent. Hopefully I can get this recorded properly in the next days of training.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 00:31 
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Heming Hu wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Heming could you please rotate your video with the pivots so we can see better? You can rotate video in YouTube's the video manager, then "enhancements" tool.



Done. by the time you see the video, it should be rotated to the correct orientation. I may be a 90's child, but I suck with computers and technologies other than a mobile phone


Thanks! Also, thank you so much for the analysis.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 00:45 
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There is one thing that is on my mind often. A particular challenge in table tennis is that there are so many shots to practice, and each of them takes enormous time to build up. Service, topspin attacking shots on both sides, pushes, flicks, all against different kinds of balls. At the same time most of amateurs do not have enough time to practice all of it. So it probably makes sense to limit the amount of shots one uses in the game for the sake of their quality, and somehow mask the weakness resulting from the absence of the other shots.

For example, I have a reasonable banana flick. My forehand flick is not good at all and I don't have any touch when playing this shot. At the same time I don't really need it. If I receive, I will wait for a half-long or even long ball and get it quite often at my level. If someone will try to throw me off balance by serving some junk spin short to my forehand, I can step around and play banana and hope to win the point outright. I am not fast enough to recover back in the position, but that is fine. The only situation when I really need the forehand flick is when I serve short and get an attackable short push to my FH. This time I have no time to play backhand and is forced to play forehand flick. However, these situations are rare (though they do happen). So probably it makes sense to give up on this shot and concentrate my effort on fixing the unfixable forehand loop and footwork around it.

What do you think?


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 01:08 
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fastmover wrote:

What do you think?


I was beating just about everyone at my club, not a huge task. Then one day this guy had the bright idea to serve light backspin short and very wide to my forehand. Suddenly I had to return that ball with my forehand and he realized that I did not produce a great shot and is able to move me around. I went from winning all the time to having lots of close matches and being exhausted from all of the extra work.

I guess the point is...you gotta have a forehand flick at some point. Someone will figure it out. I'm pretty horrible at the shot still. In any case I can reproduce my issues with the robot so practice practice practice.

The worst part is that long serves to my backhand now are much more effective because I'm looking for the short forehand so much! :headbang:


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 01:29 
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I think NL used to say that the need for shots will find you when the time is right (I'm paraphrasing obviously). Until then, what good is a fh flick you never use?


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 01:57 
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Well, I am trying to figure if it makes sense to practice a shot that I use once or twice per game at most.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 02:25 
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BRS wrote:
I think NL used to say that the need for shots will find you when the time is right (I'm paraphrasing obviously). Until then, what good is a fh flick you never use?


Quite true. It's why I don't have a solid short push yet. I rarely even see a short push to short push back. Still I've worked on it some and I've won some points with it. My thought is that I should be familiar with the idea and play around with it but don't focus on it until needed.

fastmover wrote:
Well, I am trying to figure if it makes sense to practice a shot that I use once or twice per game at most.


If you get the chance to work on it then you should. Obviously not a priority for you. It's just one of those things that seems to have smacked me in the face and the process improving this is fairly painful that I wish I did a little bit of it sooner.

My failure against all over the table shots has become apparent in the last 12 months and continues to pain me.

I've always believed that you should focus most on what loses you the most points.


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2018, 15:32 
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A little video...Various shots from a practice match today.

I just used my 4 year old phone sitting on a pair of shoes on top of a backpack thus sorry for the video quality.

In the end I think lateral movement to my right is a pretty big issue. Followed up by my backhand timing, still too early.

Always up for suggestions.

At the time of this post it's still uploading. Ill edit it tomorrow for the "in forum look".

Video: https://youtu.be/ZzZWd-ab-vg


--------------

This is the sort of stuff that makes me want to quit TT sometimes.
Some freeze frames. What in the world has happened to my backhand finish position? Trying to shorten the finish has resulted in some stupidity.
Attachment:
backhand1.png
backhand1.png [ 67.96 KiB | Viewed 374 times ]

Attachment:
backhand2.png
backhand2.png [ 33.88 KiB | Viewed 374 times ]

Attachment:
backhand3.png
backhand3.png [ 41.17 KiB | Viewed 374 times ]


Oh my.


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2018, 22:43 
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Nice edits and stills. On the freezeframes isn't the ball just too far away from you at contact so your swing is all messed up? It looks like a 'disco duck' backhand where you stick your butt out and lean foreard instead of stepping in. I do those all the time, and see lots of other people too.

The only other thing I can see in the stills is that's a very aggressive backhand stance. I don't think I ever get my right foot that far in front unless a ball went behind me down the backhand line and I am doing a full 360 trying to slap it back (which happens a lot more than it should).

From the video your strokes look great, really loose and smooth. Watching it I was thinking 1700s.

It's funny you have trouble moving to the right. It seems like most righties have problems moving back to their left for a bh after being pulled to the right. Seems like something you could train on the robot with a two-ball drill. One to the bh then one to wide fh, and cross-step to it. Brett worked on cross-step for a few minutes with me and it wasn't that hard to learn. Getting back to the left after a cross-step is still a problem, like I said. But it's a second-order problem cause you can win the point outright, or place the ball so wide on the cross that it has to come back to you.

A couple of things that I saw, may or may not be correct.

I think your stroke is the same on both fh flicks, just he had more backspin on the one that went in the net. Some serves call for a short push instead of a fh flick. The good fh flick looked great, btw.

You almost always serve long. It doesn't matter in this case because you are getting long receives to attack, but against a looper you will get smoked doing that. You have good motion, spin, and placement so maybe it will be easier for you than me. But serving long is a hard habit to break. You may want to try serving short at least 50% even when you don't have to, just so it's there when you do.

Like I said before, your strokes are long and flowing, really lovely and good spin. That may get you in trouble vs a good blocker like a TPB player, or anyone with quick blocks. One of your captions was if the rally goes past three shots your chances of winning are remote. That's going to be a problem sometimes. One strategy higher-rated players use to win matches they should win is to play passive and just push and block you down. You probably do that yourself if you play someone 200ish points lower. It's low-risk (because they aren't attacking) and doesn't use much energy. While much better players are just better and will almost always win anyway, you like to make them work for it. So I feel like you may need to have a shorter fh stroke to use close to the table. I don't know what your preferred playing distance is, that would factor of course.


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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 00:25 
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wilkinru, just a quick comment about the shot at 0:43 -- I think the key was that you didn't turn shoulders there enough. Compare with two forehands after 1:00, and see the difference.

I also think it is not worth obsessing over frozen frames taken from the matchplay and bashing your technique for looking too different from the "practice technique". Table tennis is not golf, and your opponent is trying hard to throw you off balance and make you miss. As the result, you have to adapt your shots to very awkward situations sometimes. There will be situations when things go off just because. Of course, it is worth noticing mistakes and trying to fix them, but don't be hard on yourself.


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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 01:38 
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BRS wrote:

The only other thing I can see in the stills is that's a very aggressive backhand stance. I don't think I ever get my right foot that far in front unless a ball went behind me down the backhand line and I am doing a full 360 trying to slap it back (which happens a lot more than it should).

That's a very interesting point I did not see. Since he pulled me wide on the forehand I never got my body straight when the backhand came. Hmm.

BRS wrote:
I think your stroke is the same on both fh flicks, just he had more backspin on the one that went in the net. Some serves call for a short push instead of a fh flick. The good fh flick looked great, btw.

Yeah, for sure. I do intend to mix up push and flick.

BRS wrote:
You almost always serve long. It doesn't matter in this case because you are getting long receives to attack, but against a looper you will get smoked doing that. You have good motion, spin, and placement so maybe it will be easier for you than me. But serving long is a hard habit to break. You may want to try serving short at least 50% even when you don't have to, just so it's there when you do.

There were a solid amount of serves in that match that were short. They were just edited out. Dumps into the net, me winning on the 3rd ball or me missing on the 3rd ball or him missing the table. Not a ton of value in watching those and a couple of examples were in the video.
I find that if I serve short too much people tend to crowd the table and give me some really tough balls to attack. If I show the short one enough and then open up with other serves I get value. Also I'm playing Willie here (we've played for years now and he knows my game better than anyone). His attacks aren't really that strong so I can work on countering. I'm hoping if I serve well enough that I can get loopers to return with weaker loops.


What you say is still good advice. I got crushed in Dec against 1800+ players usually because my serve wasn't good enough. These players were better than me at just about everything, tho. I think my serve is a little better now and will find out in a couple of weeks if I can get balls to attack or get attacked.

BRS wrote:
That may get you in trouble vs a good blocker like a TPB player, or anyone with quick blocks. One of your captions was if the rally goes past three shots your chances of winning are remote. That's going to be a problem sometimes.


No doubt! I have improved on this though training and have a "60% power" forehand loop now. It recovers a bit faster. I'm up for suggestions on how to really shorten my swing and even a good drill to practice it.

fastmover wrote:
I also think it is not worth obsessing over frozen frames taken from the matchplay and bashing your technique for looking too different from the "practice technique".


The very next point I did a much more textbook backhand so I think it does come down to timing. It also made me feel a lot better knowing my technique isn't always garbage in a match. Still I think there is a level of panic that occurs when I hit a backhand, as if I am afraid of it getting too close to me and this reaching crap occurs. I know my backhand drops fast when a ball comes at a speed that I am not comfortable with. Not sure how to fix that, but I'm trying a couple of things such as: backhand to backhand have my hitting partner attempt to vary the speed and spin. Having someone serve long varying the speed and spin.

Thanks for watching.


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