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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 03:18 
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First of all, I wanted to say thanks for the content that you all continue to produce in this thread. I lurk it hard.

I may be able to make the online session depending on the time. The time proposed would be difficult though.

Questions that have been coming up for me are:

When training serve return what is the best and maybe quickest method for getting it to translate into matches? Should there be a lot of fixed drills where you know serve type, spin and placement? Or focus more on random with some fixed variable? Or just better to do total randomness?

Like barfly I'd like to hear about serve placement, more so for the pendulum. Better to go towards the middle to avoid angles being cut on you. How do you feel about slower serves towards the backhand?


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 11:49 
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I would like to ask about developing anticipation. Do you take your eye off the ball to look at the racket angle when it contacts the ball? Or is it all unconscious based on hundreds of hours of training?


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 01:44 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Thanks for the time suggestion NL. I think we should shoot for next Saturday. The most important thing is the interview will be recorded and posted on ttEDGE meaning it's not a big deal if people miss it in real time.

It sounds like you've had some big events since we were in Philly. Best of luck with everything!


Ok, then here is a time slot that works for PA, Melbourne, Bangkok and some Central Europe:

Philadelphia (USA - Pennsylvania) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 8:00:00 am EDT UTC-4 hours
Melbourne (Australia - Victoria) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 10:00:00 pm AEST UTC+10 hours
Zagreb (Croatia) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 2:00:00 pm CEST UTC+2 hours
Bangkok (Thailand) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 7:00:00 pm ICT UTC+7 hours
Corresponding UTC (GMT) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 12:00:00

If anybody has objections, other slots: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20180630&p1=198&p2=152&p3=281&p4=28

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 02:47 
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A point from the yesterday's league. Why can't I always play like that?


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 15:21 
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fastmover wrote:
A point from the yesterday's league. Why can't I always play like that?



I play so many of these types of points too. Mistakes occur so darn often, but much less than it used to be. I like the backhands.

I think there's a much better forehand for you to develop there. You really don't use your body to hit those forehands. It seems to me that you turn your body after you hit the ball, not before it.

Edit: Did some good old freeze frames and I'm wrong the body does a okay turn. I guess I'm thinking that this swing could have been considerably bigger. Going from low to high more, relaxing the wrist and extending the elbow a little. The little hop at the end is a result of you knowing you didn't go low enough at the start of the swing and trying to get the ball on the table. Your heels even come off the floor and your knees straighten up. Starting lower will fix this I think. I'll shamelessly use myself as an example on a pretty similar ball on the last pic.

I know it's not easy to commit to these big swings but go for them when you can! If anything they are so f#*&ing fun.

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 16:02 
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fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Thanks for the time suggestion NL. I think we should shoot for next Saturday. The most important thing is the interview will be recorded and posted on ttEDGE meaning it's not a big deal if people miss it in real time.

It sounds like you've had some big events since we were in Philly. Best of luck with everything!


Ok, then here is a time slot that works for PA, Melbourne, Bangkok and some Central Europe:

Philadelphia (USA - Pennsylvania) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 8:00:00 am EDT UTC-4 hours
Melbourne (Australia - Victoria) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 10:00:00 pm AEST UTC+10 hours
Zagreb (Croatia) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 2:00:00 pm CEST UTC+2 hours
Bangkok (Thailand) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 7:00:00 pm ICT UTC+7 hours
Corresponding UTC (GMT) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 12:00:00

If anybody has objections, other slots: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20180630&p1=198&p2=152&p3=281&p4=28


Heming is playing a tournament in Tonga (google it) this weekend, so we have to postpone.

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 17:30 
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fastmover wrote:
I've been trying to learn how to play fade pivots cross-court so that the opponent cannot block easily... At this moment I can do this against a slow high ball, like a popped-up serve return. But I struggle to do this against balls of reasonable quality. Does it make sense to fade a low, reasonably spinny push? Or it is better to hit straight against this one?



this is definitely my favourite shot to make once ive turned around against a backhand banana flick or in a rally. I would definitely extremely strongly NOT recommend using this shot against backspin, unless the push comes very high


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 17:42 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Thanks for the time suggestion NL. I think we should shoot for next Saturday. The most important thing is the interview will be recorded and posted on ttEDGE meaning it's not a big deal if people miss it in real time.

It sounds like you've had some big events since we were in Philly. Best of luck with everything!


Ok, then here is a time slot that works for PA, Melbourne, Bangkok and some Central Europe:

Philadelphia (USA - Pennsylvania) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 8:00:00 am EDT UTC-4 hours
Melbourne (Australia - Victoria) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 10:00:00 pm AEST UTC+10 hours
Zagreb (Croatia) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 2:00:00 pm CEST UTC+2 hours
Bangkok (Thailand) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 7:00:00 pm ICT UTC+7 hours
Corresponding UTC (GMT) Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 12:00:00

If anybody has objections, other slots: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20180630&p1=198&p2=152&p3=281&p4=28


Heming is playing a tournament in Tonga (google it) this weekend, so we have to postpone.



In the meantime guys, I would highly recommend watching this video:




I have watched this video almost as many times as I have played forehands.. From these slow motion frames, we can see exactly how the best players in the world play the game

Try observe the following: -Their footwork and movement patterns both side by side and in and out.

-How much body they use on every shot

-Whether they hit a hard shot, a spinny shot, or a touch shot, how much they really 'get into' every shot and go after it, instead of 'tapping it over', which is what separates better players and others. For example, when someone gives you a push, you wait for the ball to drop down as low as possible (the gravity decelerating the ball down means the lower u hit it, the more spin you will generally get, even though it is tougher to control), drop your legs and racket and and then you spin it up as heavy as you can. Despite the shot not being a powerful one, you still speed up your racket as fast and intensely as you can right? This is what im trying to say here. The pros have this mindset in all/most shots in the game. Boll is a great example in this area.

-Look precisely what choice of shots they usually make. Once you develop the foundations, aspects like shot selection is crucial. The pros seem to make very many good selections of shots. Through experience, they learn what are good choices in the heat of the moments. This goes deeper to=play many matches and you will improve at it very quickly by learning what is good, what is not good, etc.

-Look at where they place their shots, the middle pocket is a common selection, especially for ma long. Some are even good enough to look at their opponents position/motives and then decide where is best to play their shots. Ma long is great at this.

-All the things that Brett talks about in his videos and technique teaching, its all there!

-Anything else that I may have missed.


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 21:19 
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The biggest difference I always see between watching video of pros and amateurs is the pros balance is so much better. I think they are able to put their body into a whole series of shots partly because of that.

ML resets both feet three times between his serve and third ball. Watching the women it's even more amazing. LSW bounces on both feet maybe 30 times in a long point, and they play more longer points than the men.

Is there any specific physical training or drills at the table you could recommend to develop the strength and make it an unconscious reflex to reset both feet between shots that way?


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2018, 23:26 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
A player like Heming won't spend a lot of time on forehand flicking. His focus is on short pushing (forehand) and banana flick (backhand) and that's it for returning serve. Sure, he has other shots, but they aren't getting attention. Heming would also spend zero time on lobbing and chopping. This should be obvious.



By the way, is it worth for us to spend time to practice lobbing/fishing? I used to neglect these shots, but after playing a few tournaments I thing I should change my mind a little.

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 00:49 
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fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
A player like Heming won't spend a lot of time on forehand flicking. His focus is on short pushing (forehand) and banana flick (backhand) and that's it for returning serve. Sure, he has other shots, but they aren't getting attention. Heming would also spend zero time on lobbing and chopping. This should be obvious.



By the way, is it worth for us to spend time to practice lobbing/fishing? I used to neglect these shots, but after playing a few tournaments I thing I should change my mind a little.


Yes. Even chopping if you have the time or inclination. It's not to win points per se but to just get a feel for the game. It also helps when playing against players who do that so you get an idea if the problems they are posing. Had I not been as arthritic I suspect I would have done a lot of fishing and lobbing. I initially did it when developing my forehand and backhand loops and later did it when playing players whose serves I couldn't receive but whose third balls didn't feel intimidating enough for me to not consider backing up and just running the ball down.

You may also surprise yourself with how good you may get at it.

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 01:31 
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I don't think I've seen many matches where both players don't go fishing at least once. Lobbing feels like a more specific skill but fishing happens all the time.

The most typical: serve short, return hits the top of the net, you struggle to get the ball on the table but its of poor quality and you get back. What do you do when your back there? I go fishing until I have time to setup some sort of loop. Sometimes even have to backhand chop which despite not ever really working on it isn't too bad in a pinch.

It's not a bad idea to just fish while someone else is practicing loops (at a distance blocking). After they do 3 successful loops I try to reloop from distance.

It isn't one of those skills that will get you higher up but you will win more points vs weaker players during one of those unlucky exchanges.


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 01:36 
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What shocked me is that I saw 1800-1900 level players who based their entire game on lobbing.

BTW, I actually enjoy chopping, I was thinking about going the chopper route a while ago, but I am too impatient for this style. I like to chop during the practice though.

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 01:41 
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Heming Hu wrote:


I watched it and just watched their knees. They get so low during forehands. They have such a stable base to work off of to explode.
In truth this is beyond my athletic ability.

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 02:15 
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My two cents on lobbing/fishing. It isn't worth the practice time from a wins/losses perspective, but it's really fun, so do it anyway. Play a game of smasher vs lobber at the end of club night, if your ceiling is high enough.


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