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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 12:45 
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wilkinru wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:

There is no such thing as transferring weight on the forehand, btw. Transferring weight does absolutely nothing to your arm. Stand up and put your arm out straight to the side. Now transfer you weight from the right leg to the left leg. You arm shouldn't have moved one inch if done as described. Now put your arm up again and rotate your hips and torso and watch your arm move.


This is why it's so hard to listen to other people's advice. Even very good players. Ugh.


Sometimes when you tell a player to transfer their weight, they incidentally use the right leg to push their right hip forward. This doesn't mean it's great advice, but that's why the advice has stayed around for so long. It can actually work from time to time. It doesn't work every time...just enough to keep it breathing.

I'm going to make an LTT video about an exercise to get it exactly right, every time...

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 12:57 
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I have improved my serve. I played some matches in Bangkok last night and I served better than ever before. I think I'm now serving better than I did in the 90s and I never thought I'd say that.

For the last month, I've been practicing my serve 3 times per week for an hour each time. I've been going down to the club in the morning and just practicing my serve like a 12 year old. It hasn't been random practice though as I've just focused on one specific way of moving my body. Videos are coming over the next month or so.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 13:28 
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When you say "using your right hip" do you actually mean "pushing with your right foot off the ground to spin the body"?

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 13:41 
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fastmover wrote:
When you say "using your right hip" do you actually mean "pushing with your right foot off the ground to spin the body"?


Yes. It may not be the best way to think about it, but that's what is really happening.

As I said above, I'm going to make a video demonstrating an exercise so you can't possibly get it wrong.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 13:41 
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My first attempt at a reverse pendulum serve in about 2 years. I actually watched the TTedge videos on the subject after trying it, which seems a little backwards but gotta start somewhere.

In the spirit of old TTedge (Early BC)
Things I am doing wrong:

Not bending over enough.
Hip should be next to the table.
Feet should be in line with the back of the table.
Too much follow-through.
Not enough body being used in the shot.

Let's see if Russ can improve these items and have another look soon!


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 13:45 
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Couldn't you equally say "Pulling back with your left hip" (for a righty). That would have the same effect of rotating your body counterclockwise for a FH. And it might help maintain a heavy left foot.

I am back to thinking a lot about weight on my left foot.

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Last edited by BRS on 17 Jan 2019, 13:54, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 13:53 
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wilkinru wrote:


My first attempt at a reverse pendulum serve in about 2 years. I actually watched the TTedge videos on the subject after trying it, which seems a little backwards but gotta start somewhere.

In the spirit of old TTedge (Early BC)
Things I am doing wrong:

Not bending over enough.
Hip should be next to the table.
Feet should be in line with the back of the table.
Too much follow-through.
Not enough body being used in the shot.

Let's see if Russ can improve these items and have another look soon!


The body is the big one. Fold your torso down towards the ball like you are going to headbutt the table. Watch LTT88. I don't emphasis the folding motion enough in the voiceover. In fact, you don't need to worry about turning really. You just need to fold/push your chest towards the table.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 14:01 
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Brett Clarke wrote:

The body is the big one. Fold your torso down towards the ball like you are going to headbutt the table. Watch LTT88. I don't emphasis the folding motion enough in the voiceover. In fact, you don't need to worry about turning really. You just need to fold/push your chest towards the table.


I'm literally missing the ball half of the time and need to spend some time doing some floor serves.


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 14:24 
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wilkinru wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:

The body is the big one. Fold your torso down towards the ball like you are going to headbutt the table. Watch LTT88. I don't emphasis the folding motion enough in the voiceover. In fact, you don't need to worry about turning really. You just need to fold/push your chest towards the table.


I'm literally missing the ball half of the time and need to spend some time doing some floor serves.


That is fine, I strongly believe that the reverse is the hardest serve to master, by a very large margin. Prepare for a long journey.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 14:49 
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I've actually been messing with my reverse serve lately. As I wrote before, I decided to use my reverse serve a lot more in matches, so I tried to improve it a bit, especially the use of my body. What I found out is that the only way for me to generate any backspin on this serve is the extensive use of visualization. When I intend to serve backspin, the first thing I imagine is a straight line that goes underneath the ball lying in my hand that points towards the intended direction of the flight path. So if I want to serve cross-court, I imagine a diagonal line. Then I stick my elbow to the side and imagine the torso rotation that will move my hand along the imaginary line underneath the ball. And finally I turn my body according to the plan making sure that my chest at the end of the motion is aligned with the intended flight path. It feels like I am wrapping my body around the ball, though it definitely looks different. This may sound like am totally crazy, but unless I follow this complicated procedure, I only generate varying amount of sidespin no matter what else I do.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 22:25 
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[quote="fastmover"]I've actually been messing with my reverse serve lately. As I wrote before, I decided to use my reverse serve a lot more in matches, so I tried to improve it a bit, especially the use of my body. What I found out is that the only way for me to generate any backspin on this serve is the extensive use of visualization. When I intend to serve backspin, the first thing I imagine is a straight line that goes underneath the ball lying in my hand that points towards the intended direction of the flight path. So if I want to serve cross-court, I imagine a diagonal line. Then I stick my elbow to the side and imagine the torso rotation that will move my hand along the imaginary line underneath the ball. And finally I turn my body according to the plan making sure that my chest at the end of the motion is aligned with the intended flight path. It feels like I am wrapping my body around the ball, though it definitely looks different. This may sound like am totally crazy, but unless I follow this complicated procedure, I only generate varying amount of sidespin no matter what else I do.[/quote]

Do you get accused of time-wasting? And doesn't all that physical pre-routine telegraph the serve to your opponent?

Yesterday Mr Angry Chopper accused me of stalling when I accidentally hit a ball into the net after a point, trying to give it back to him so he could serve. But he also said "The table is going to give him the game. Just watch, the table is going to give it to him again." at 8-8 in a fourth set. And a lot of other crazy stuff.

I still haven't even attempted, much less mastered, the visualization thing. But when I want to serve straight backspin I kind of just decide, and then hold my bat horizontal. Dropping the tip of the bat unintentionally is what makes it mix with sidespin.

I did have a kind of vision yesterday though. Mr Angry Chopper took a bogus let with me serving 3-2 in the 5th of our first match. Someone came into the court behind him on a shot he was never going to touch. But I gave him the let and won the point again, 4-2. Then I thought, you have bad TT karma now, you have no chance in this game. I hardly missed a ball after that. Knowing I was going to win because of his bad karma made everything so easy.

So Mr. AC sat out a match, then we played again. I won the first set, scoring six straight from down 9-5. Then I started playing stupidly aggressive, and he won two easy sets. In the 4th I was down 8 - 4 and 10 - 8 but won 12 - 10. I won the 5th 11 - 1. When we slapped hands he said "You got lucky, as usual!" Then he packed up his bad karma and went home. I love playing that guy.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 22:34 
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My fh sucked a lot yesterday though, even though I played well otherwise. And if you asked me why, before reading this thread, I would have told you because I didn't transfer my weight. Maybe that means the same to me as what you mean by the hip rotation thing.

What I want to work on is the mini-cross footwork from WH's heavy left foot video. That fixes so many problems with my fh. I get better power and spin, stay balanced, can move better, and it eveb makes me re-set my feet. But I've only ever done it in multi-ball, and I can't seem to do the mini-cross deliberately in a practice match. And it's making me sad.

I came back from the Denmark minicamp with three simple things to work on. Mini-cross on fh topspins, set up 5cm deeper after serve recovery and on receive, and take more time between points to do a small mental routine. The only one I'm doing in these practice matches so far is setting up further back to receive, because I measure it with my arm.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 23:41 
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My pre-routine is all mental, not physical. I only imagine things and don't do them. After a lot of practice I can do this very quickly so it does not cause a concern from my opponents. Speaking about placement, I actually do struggle a bit to vary it on the reverse. My serve cross-court is a little worse than the same down the line.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2019, 00:46 
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fastmover wrote:
My pre-routine is all mental, not physical. I only imagine things and don't do them. After a lot of practice I can do this very quickly so it does not cause a concern from my opponents. Speaking about placement, I actually do struggle a bit to vary it on the reverse. My serve cross-court is a little worse than the same down the line.


Do you do the pre-routine before every serve or only reverse? How about when you receive, do you have a mental routine for that?

This is important and an area of free, low-effort improvement that I'm passing up out of laziness now. Really curious what works for other peeps.

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Last edited by BRS on 18 Jan 2019, 00:52, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2019, 00:51 
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Note to Brett:

I hit exactly one perfectly coordinated bh last night, in 29 sets. The quality difference from a fraction of a second better timing must be 200%. My opponent didn't even move before the ball was by him.

Iirc I hit one at Trolley last week too, in 10 or 12 matches. One perfect bh a day seems to be my limit atm.

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