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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:06 
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BRS wrote:
What I took away from camp for my fh was if i pivot to get my whole body turned sideways. Us passing on brett's coaching tidbits is like the six blind men and the elephant.

Anyway, in Portugal David and his father told me not to turn my right foot sideways like that on fhs bc it makes me fall away backwards. And that's exsctly what happened to you. So I agree with NL. I don't know why it's that way, and I don't need or want to know why. That won't help a damn thing. Just if you turn your foot sideways like that you are going to lose position for the rest of the point.


Is it correct that NL above was trying to convince me to turn my right foot more sideways so that I can use more hip rotation, and you are telling me to not turn it sideways so to avoid falling back and losing position?

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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:23 
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What I got from NL's posts was that he was suggesting you have your right foot pointed more forward instead of sideways, which should allow you to use your hips better.

I personally use both both. A little more forward for more power and a little more sideways for more spin. I haven't been thinking about this for a long time though. I used to have my foot sideways for everything a few years ago. Someone mentioned it to me, so I tried to get it pointing more forward. Now I use both.

The part about recovery I'll need to think about. I don't recall having recovery issues either way, but I do reset my feet quite quickly. It might be an issue as I verse better opponents though.

I'll need to watch LTT93 again (or for the first time).

Interesting discussion as always :)


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:33 
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Ok, dear experts with very strong opinions, what is the correct right foot position for a pivot: X, Y or Z?

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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:41 
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I'm definitely not an expert at this because I actually thought it was even more than your x footing. Like if there was a w before x with the foot pointing at the toes of your y footing position. So yep, I'm interesting in this too ha. But in my case, I'm able to start at that position and change my foot to point forward at the end of the stroke to finish kind of like y.

I actually have some multiball I did last week which includes a pivot. Would like some feedback on it. I'll post it soon. It might add to this discussion?

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to say (and this is probably important information), that I generally pivot and go cross court these days. I used to exclusively go down the line, but I don't have any real videos of me pivoting going down the line recently to compare.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:47 
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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:52 
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mickd wrote:
I'm definitely not an expert at this because I actually thought it was even more than your x footing. Like if there was a w before x with the foot pointing at the toes of your y footing position.


Only the strongest opinions count in this thread!

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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:58 
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Let me be clear. You need to spin the hip for optimal. You can spin it by putting the foot side on and recovering or but starting it straight and spinning back and forth over it.

On the forehand versus backspin, you also need for optimal results to lean over the right foot with your torso fold. This move is hard to make I'd the foot is not side on. Try it. While we can all get away with all kinds of things in specific circumstances, if you want to optimize the lean, you need to do it with the foot side on. Or do the side on while backswinging.

Hope I made it clear. It is how the side on foot supports the torso fold for looping backspin that makes it important here.

By the way side on is relative to the left leg or how the fold will be supported. It is not a right leg by itself thing.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:00 
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NextLevel wrote:
Let me be clear. You need to spin the hip for optimal. You can spin it by putting the foot side on and recovering or but starting it straight and spinning back and forth over it.

On the forehand versus backspin, you also need for optimal results to lean over the right foot with your torso fold. This move is hard to make I'd the foot is not side on. Try it. While we can all get away with all kinds of things in specific circumstances, if you want to optimize the lean, you need to do it with the foot side on. Or do the side on while backswinging.

Hope I made it clear. It is how the side on foot supports the torso fold for looping backspin that makes it important here.

By the way side on is relative to the left leg or how the fold will be supported. It is not a right leg by itself thing.


X, Y or Z?

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:02 
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fastmover wrote:
Ok, dear experts with very strong opinions, what is the correct right foot position for a pivot: X, Y or Z?

Image


This is not about the pivot but for looping backspin. For the regular pivot, something like X. But If you are looping backspin cross court and your foot ends up pointing towards the right back corner or the back barrier as part of the hip rotation (assuming you aren't compensating with upper body strength) it is not unreasonable.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:06 
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fastmover wrote:
BRS wrote:
What I took away from camp for my fh was if i pivot to get my whole body turned sideways. Us passing on brett's coaching tidbits is like the six blind men and the elephant.

Anyway, in Portugal David and his father told me not to turn my right foot sideways like that on fhs bc it makes me fall away backwards. And that's exsctly what happened to you. So I agree with NL. I don't know why it's that way, and I don't need or want to know why. That won't help a damn thing. Just if you turn your foot sideways like that you are going to lose position for the rest of the point.


Is it correct that NL above was trying to convince me to turn my right foot more sideways so that I can use more hip rotation, and you are telling me to not turn it sideways so to avoid falling back and losing position?


BRS was trained (in Portugal I believe) to turn the foot as part of the backswing. Even if it required him to jump. My point is that if you are going to play a proper forehand vs backspin, the lean of the torso requires you to get that foot position right if you want room to swing back to facing the table while getting power from the hip. Again LTT93.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:08 
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fastmover wrote:
BRS wrote:
What I took away from camp for my fh was if i pivot to get my whole body turned sideways. Us passing on brett's coaching tidbits is like the six blind men and the elephant.

Anyway, in Portugal David and his father told me not to turn my right foot sideways like that on fhs bc it makes me fall away backwards. And that's exsctly what happened to you. So I agree with NL. I don't know why it's that way, and I don't need or want to know why. That won't help a damn thing. Just if you turn your foot sideways like that you are going to lose position for the rest of the point.


Is it correct that NL above was trying to convince me to turn my right foot more sideways so that I can use more hip rotation, and you are telling me to not turn it sideways so to avoid falling back and losing position?


He has his own logic. I have mine. Again, LTT93.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:09 
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NextLevel, believe me or not, I have no idea what you are talking about. I genuinely try to make sense of what you are saying and I cannot. I could not do this two pages ago, I can't do it now. I even drew a picture, but all my efforts are futile. I think I am done with this.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:10 
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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:12 
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NextLevel wrote:
On the forehand versus backspin, you also need for optimal results to lean over the right foot with your torso fold.


Oh wow. My coach (who was the coach for the Japanese national team for a period and played at a very high level) said the same thing last week!

He was getting me to lean over my left foot (left hander) with my torso fold against underspin.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 00:16 
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mickd wrote:
What I got from NL's posts was that he was suggesting you have your right foot pointed more forward instead of sideways, which should allow you to use your hips better.

I personally use both both. A little more forward for more power and a little more sideways for more spin. I haven't been thinking about this for a long time though. I used to have my foot sideways for everything a few years ago. Someone mentioned it to me, so I tried to get it pointing more forward. Now I use both.

The part about recovery I'll need to think about. I don't recall having recovery issues either way, but I do reset my feet quite quickly. It might be an issue as I verse better opponents though.

I'll need to watch LTT93 again (or for the first time).

Interesting discussion as always :)


If you are always resetting your feet, then this conversation doesn't mean as much as the hip spinning will always determine what is happening. For people like me who for one reason or another don't always reset their feet, nothing the position our feet are in when playing certain shots is important because we aren't going to change it quickly enough for many shots. And in any case, if you want to lean on the racket foot and fold your torso without turning that foot sideways, the amount of backswing you can get will be limited. There is also potential for lower back injury but to each his own.

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