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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 00:20 
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Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
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Hello all,

I wanted to start a thread where we discuss and share technique on service return with Long Pips. Sideswipes, chop blocks, flips, bumps, you name it.

I am now concentrating on the short game and serve return. I've always known it's important and probably keeping me back in level, but like many other choppers I tend to overly focus on long defense. Already I've seen huge rewards, but intend on continuing.

Suggested Format
1 - Indicate OX or sponge LPs (or Anti)
2 - Share your technique name (Bump, Push, Chop, Sideswipe, etc)
3 - Describe the serve given and describe the technique for the return
4 - Provide strategic context (ie, what you are trying to accomplish: win an outright point, encourage a loop for chopping rally, encourage a weak attackable 3rd ball, etc)
5 - Provide video if you are able, or link to video that already exists


Point 5 is what I'm most interested in. I am going to try to set up a session with video this Thursday where I demonstrate my serve returns with LP. Not everyone has a video recorder (I only have a smartphone and it's limited)

Then we can comment on each other's videos, give pointers to the video taker, and/or learn from the techniques shared.

We all want to chop like Joo, but we need to get past the serve return first! ;)

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Last edited by Japsican on 12 Apr 2016, 02:19, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 01:25 
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Nice topic Japs! I think your format needs to be just a suggested format and people may feel free to discuss their service return with pips, as not everyone may be able to categorise quite so rigidly as you've asked. If they can, fine...but better to get some discussion on the topic than nothing due to not feeling comfortable with completing the format and terminology you ask for.

And I'd also suggest that not every return technique is used specifically against a particular serve type being received. I know I will quite often use a different technique on the same serve type received for different reasons eg. catch the opponent off guard, not in best position, reflex reactions to fast serves, etc.

I'll start with a bit of free form discussion on my returns to get the ball rolling. First, as per my sig, I return with Ox pips. I probably return about 90% of serves with my pips. My goto/default return is going to be a push with the pips from most places served to on the table. This "push" however can take on many different looks. First, it usually will have angle and be aimed to a point where I may draw a weak return from it (that comes down to analysing the opponents game). The push can be to return no spin under a chop serve, it can turn into a roll for the same serve, and occasionally where I've picked the ball as being plum (for underspin, height position), it may become an all out attack with a faster flick of the wrist. The push may be backed off to more of a chopblock if I see a topspin ball coming at me. Just how much of a chopblock with depend on how much spin I see on the ball. When I see sidespin on the ball then my wrist will turn to counter the sidespin, and judging on the ball, again may turn into a flick over the ball to send it spinning back utilising (continuing) the spin given to me. Sometimes these can result in a straight winner, or can be part of a "move the opponent around" type strategy. The speed of the "push" doesn't always rely on a wrist flick either, it can just be a faster movement of the forearm forward to make the ball move faster. This is often useful to result in a clear winner by wrong footing or catching the opponent off guard if you angle it to the side they are not at, or even straight down the table sometimes when they're expecting you to angle it. Its amazing how often a hole opens up in their bat :P :lol:

One of my favorite returns which can result in a winner is when I'm served to short to my FH and I I just turn the bat to pips side (chickenwing style) and return the ball to the opposite side of the table (ie. their FH) and just drop the ball just over the net. Infinitely harder for me to carry out this shot with a FH inverted shot, but with the pips there's not too often I miss (misses can mean overcooking the weight and going wide of the table, or undercooking and putting it into the net). With the pip spin on the ball as well as the angle when people do reach this shot, its very often over-weighted back and sent long, or ready for a FH kill.

Of course all of this still comes down to the opponent player, their serving skill, and their follow-up skill. If you make a particular return that they get the advantage on several times, then you start to think about using a different technique :lol:

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 01:25 
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great idea for a thread...looking forward to see what ppl have to say about it... :up:

if you can only squeeze fanti in the title or in the 1st post, the technique is similar i think...

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 02:18 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Nice topic Japs! I think your format needs to be just a suggested format and people may feel free to discuss their service return with pips, as not everyone may be able to categorise quite so rigidly as you've asked. If they can, fine...but better to get some discussion on the topic than nothing due to not feeling comfortable with completing the format and terminology you ask for.

And I'd also suggest that not every return technique is used specifically against a particular serve type being received. I know I will quite often use a different technique on the same serve type received for different reasons eg. catch the opponent off guard, not in best position, reflex reactions to fast serves, etc.

Agreed, great suggestion! I edited my OP to say "Suggested Format" because that really was my intent. Thanks for pointing that out.

I thought I was pretty careful not to imply that specific returns are used against a particular serve type. I fully expect multiple return types to be used versus the same type of serves, and multiple serve types to be returned with only one technique. So as an addendum all, make sure you realize that we fully understand any one technique can be used vs. different serve types and spins.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 02:47 
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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 09:10 
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Love the bump from his LP! Does anyone know what blade his using , it seems like a silver tag BTY


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 12:21 
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Chopper88 wrote:
Love the bump from his LP! Does anyone know what blade his using , it seems like a silver tag BTY


I think as late as February he was using Butterfly Matsushita Pro, with Hurricane on FH and Cloud & Fog LP on BH. Got this from comments here:


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 12:35 
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Makes me wonder what OX feels like on Willow wood. Sounds like OX in the video...or thin sponge.

I have to agree, his bumps and serve return were wizard-like in the video that GMan posted (Nice find GMan).

I absolutely, LOVE his style. His chopping is sharp. But the short game...push blocks, rolls and some deadly bumps...fantastic. Didn't notice many side-swipes in the first video, but there were quite a few in the second one where he loses.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 13:04 
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That would have to be OX... the control in short and reversal is so typical of OX.

I agree, Jian Li is great to watch, really nice style with LPs. We should start a thread on him. :clap:

I've managed to locate him on Facebook, and have asked him about equipment. Perhaps he'll be willing to share a few tips as well. :o

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 04:37 
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So, I will try to focus on each Technique that gets brought up.

With Jian Li’s video above, the “Bump” is one we can discuss right off the bat (pun intended).

First off, for clarity sake, let’s define a bump. What differentiates a bump from a push block or a block?

To me, a bump is tapping the ball flat with the pips. Usually it’s a touch shot and short, but from Seemiller’s commentary, it sure seemed like he was referring to some of the aggressive pushes and rolls as “bumps.”

That being said, it looks to me like the bumps that Jian Li is generally performing is more of an aggressive (Flat) push with some wrist at times to deal with the spin and/or placement.
From a technical perspective, to perform what I consider to be a 'bump', I tend to close my bat (using DG OX) relative to the spin, and push forward ever so slight vs. top spin or side spin. I may guide the stroke with a little upward movement. The wrist action is kind of fast but soft, and very limited because getting wristy increases the likelihood of a loss in control.

Vs backspin, I don’t tend to ‘bump’ but rather aggressively push block, hit, or push inverted style to initiate a chopping rally. The higher the ball, the more I tend to hit it. The lower the ball, the more I push it (inverted style).

Vs. no-spin? for me it's all about placement. Generally, i have no LP answer to no spin with OX. With sponged LPs like P-1R I'll push them inverted-style to add some quality to the ball, but I prefer to twiddle and attack or push no-spin if I can.

How about you guys? Am I dong anything overtly wrong in my descriptions above? Thursday I'll try to get video. Hopefully I'll get someone that can serve decently.

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 06:19 
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I'll try to describe some of my receiving techniques which I use with my OX long pips(GD Talon) on a fast blade.

2. Sideswipe
3. Half-long side-under- or only side- spin serve to my backhand or to the middle. I use a typical sideswipe trying to take the ball almost at the bounce and push it long.
4. The idea is to throw the opponent so he can't make a strong opening shot and be ready for a counter attack(usually the opponent tries to attack the BH so I often twiddle and get ready for a BH counter shot). If the opponent attacks to the pips (FH or BH - depends on my twiddling) - chop-block and the rally begins :)

2. Chop
3. Long(any) serve to the pips. A normal chop depending on the spin of the serve. If the serve is mostly under-spin then the chop motion is very fast under the ball. Main idea of the receive - fast, long and low to the net.
4. This is something that I do once or twice in a game. I try to provoke a loop - chopping rally (almost.. because I don't chop from the FH side :) ). The reason is - to break the opponents rhythm (because most of the time I play near the table and attack a lot).

2. Block/chop-block
3. Half long or long serves with no spin or topspin. Depending on the amount of spin and the speed of the ball there is a change between the 2 types of receive. The idea of the receive is to absorb all the energy of the ball and return it short and slow (and not high of course). I would say that the main thing for this type of receives is using a relaxed "soft" grip.
4. This way I try to prevent the opponent from making a good third ball attack and start a short game rally(if I can't launch an attack) because I feel confident in my short game and have a lot of options in it(twiddling helps here a lot + flicks).

2. Short push
3. Short under- or no- spin serves with or without side-spin. This is a normal push with the right angle (as if it is easy :lol: ) against the spin.
4. This way I try to make my opponent start a short game rally or give me a manageable ball for my third ball attack.

2. Long Bump (something like that)
3. Long top-spin serves. Open racket, use the spin of the serve to return a low flat ball to my opponent.
4. Start a rally with not a very strong third ball attack from my opponent.

All of this depends very much on my opponents level (obviously :D )
Sometimes these receives deliver me some good opportunities for a strong attack and sometimes just help me prevent a strong attack from my opponent(my coach is a hard hitter so any way to weaken his attack is helpful) :punch:
As an addition I would say that I receive with the regular rubber from the BH too so this helps a lot in confusing the opponent.

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 11:04 
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pgpg wrote:
Chopper88 wrote:
Love the bump from his LP! Does anyone know what blade his using , it seems like a silver tag BTY


I think as late as February he was using Butterfly Matsushita Pro, with Hurricane on FH and Cloud & Fog LP on BH. Got this from comments here:




Thank you But Ben ( commentator )said he had SP , I really debut that .


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 12:20 
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Chopper88 wrote:
pgpg wrote:
Chopper88 wrote:
Love the bump from his LP! Does anyone know what blade his using , it seems like a silver tag BTY


I think as late as February he was using Butterfly Matsushita Pro, with Hurricane on FH and Cloud & Fog LP on BH. Got this from comments here:




Thank you But Ben ( commentator )said he had SP , I really debut that .


Ben did leave a comment on Youtube comment section that he was mistaken about SP.

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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 02:03 
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C'mon guys, share your secrets :devil: !
This is a great topic with some great potential. It must live! :topspin: :Chop: :Defense:

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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2016, 02:58 
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pgpg wrote:
Ben did leave a comment on Youtube comment section that he was mistaken about SP.

He also commented that it was sponged LP, like 1mm.

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