OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Since I am busy with administrative and management duties, plus intro level group classes, I don’t work one on one with many students. Normally most of our private lessons are provided by our other 3 very qualified coaches.

My usual focus is 1st year foundational technique. USATT 0-1000 level. I would not currently see myself as someone to take a player from USATT 2000 (advanced) to 2600 (elite). We do have other coaches here who have worked with players who were top 20 in the world, and they are very good with our elite players.

About 9 months ago I decided I would like to do a little more than “foundation work”. I wanted to also work on the “wall” a little (still not looking to work on the roof). I chose one of our young students age 7 who had a positive attitude, whom I thought I would enjoy working with. I next talked to his father and explained my vision for success in athletics. When I could see that we were on the same page, we made a 2 year plan for his son Jayden.

One of the first things I did was assign some homework. I asked Jayden to view 2 videos. One was a close to mid distance 2 wing looper from Japan. The other was the Japanese modern defender, Yuto Muramatsu. After Jayden had viewed the videos I asked him which style interested him more?, and which style did he think he would enjoy playing? He preferred Yuto Muramatsu’s style. So we removed the inverted on his backhand and replaced it with pips.

Immediately people were questioning, “Hey why is he playing with pips?” Many times I got the “Who’s (bad - implied) decision was this?” As if all his chances for success were being spoilt by putting pips on one side of his paddle. Many times the person conversing with me looked as if they had just drank some sour milk. It seemed to cause many people much consternation that he was not being stamped into the mold of what they felt was good table tennis. Some thought that if one insists on doing the distasteful thing of making a chopper, you should at least wait until they have played several years and mastered all the inverted strokes to a high level of proficiency. Me, I see table tennis like a language. There are certain elements that are better absorbed while the mind in still in that state of high plasticity. Someone who switches to pips after 10 years of inverted play is going to see the capability of the pips through the lens of an inverted players. There are certain elements of the pips they likely will never fully appreciate.

Anyway, as I looked ahead to his 2 year period of development, I estimated that he would really begin to give some people trouble sometime during the second year. I thought his initial development was likely to be behind that of his inverted peers since he has much more to learn.

Since we want him to be a modern defender who is capable of flipping, he needs to learn all the regular strokes forehand and backhand, plus he needs to learn how to chop pips and inverted. He also needs to be prepared to play the point out with either surface on either side after flipping.

Things are really much more complicated for him. Since he is a beginner, still needs to work on his inverted strokes, and he must also be a good practice partner for others, he has done the bulk of his group training playing with the inverted. For example he will move the inverted to his backhand so that he can block for his partner. When it is his turn to do Falkenberg, he plays all the balls flipping his paddle, so that he can spin everything with the inverted. This is all very good for our long term goals. But it does not help your match play, when you spend most of your time practicing with a surface that you will not normally use the same way during your matches. Of course we spend more time on the pips during his one on one, but we still do need to work on the inverted as well. I think we are just now coming to the point that his proficiency is good enough that we can start to spend a much higher percentage of time working with the pips.

Anyway all of this background is to bring us to the following new information. After 9 months of work, Nationals ratings are out and Jayden with a rating of 881 is now the number #1 rated 8-year-old boy in California. USATT does not publish a national list for 8-year-olds, but as California is very strong, he is almost certainly top 5 nationally.

So to all the pip haters who felt Jayden’s table tennis future was being ruined – Take that!

That's a great accomplishment to both of you Good on you for sticking to your guns alphapong There is no right or wrong, and your decision has obviously paid off!

I'm not that familiar with Yuto Muramatsu, does he actually flip his bat over the loop with the inverted?

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To clarify, I am not talking about flipping to play every ball with the inverted or just randomly flipping. I am talking about selective strategic flipping. For example: the opponent is now serving at 9-9 in the first game. Thus far you have been returning all his long no-spin serves to your backhand with a chop. You now have a good feel for his serve, so rather than chopping it, you flip and rip a winner with your inverted. Second example: you serve a serve that you know the receiver will return to your backhand since he is trying to avoid your forehand attack, and knows he will get the pips on the backhand. You serve, flip, and score an easy winner because he was not expecting an attack from that wing. Muramatsu and many other modern defenders play some points like this.

Hey alphapong!

That's a great story! I think you have made some very good coaching choices: the training for sake of others with inverted, and the teaching of flipping the paddle for different circumstances. (and other things!)

It was wise of you to show the boy the 2 videos and give him the choice of how he wants to play.

Keep us posted on the progress!

Jayden on the agility ladder -
https://youtu.be/msy_ViLfYDo

Very fast – it sounds like a tap-dancing cadence!

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great post alphapong, i really enjoyed reading it

any future updates of the little man progress will be highly appriciated

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What an opportunity for a youngster to be taught in this way during such an elementary stage. It will take a lot of dedication on both coach and student's side for a considerable number of years (maybe stepping to a higher coaching level when appropriate). If the sky is going to be the limit...he may need to go visit China or Sweden or Germany perhaps...maybe in early teens?

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pips can be a head start for some and a detriment for learning for others
I started teaching someone around 13 with pips and within a year and a half (he was a beginner) he had many scalps of national team members
and was number 7 in Nz for his age bracket, anyway he retired a 16.5

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[quote="rodderz"
and was number 7 in Nz for his age bracket, anyway he retired a 16.5[/quote]

That's what often happens...you put all this work into a kid and ....STOP....it all ends.

Then he'll come back at 35 or 40

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

For those who expressed interest, here is an update on Jayden.

After 2 more tournaments, he is up to USATT 1100.

He and his teammate Victor ( https://youtu.be/nyjIF9jHvGg ) have been vying for the number 1 spot in California 8-year-olds. Others are more than 400 points behind the two of them.

Below is one of Jayden's matches at nationals in July. Since then we have been spending more time on chopping. During the last couple weeks the focus has been chopping with variation.



https://youtu.be/G7_uQNMa_HI

Wow what a story!!! Definitely will be a top modern defender in few years time, as you said not many ppl start and chose defensive play at a young age.

Kudos on you Mr! And hope that young man keep it up!

What pips does Jayden use? Tsp superspinpips perhaps?

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He currently plays with black Pogo with .6 sponge.

The Joola Teams West tournament has just been processed and it was good for Jayden and his team mate Victor.

They went from the number one and number two rated eight years old boys in California to the number one and number two rated eight years old boys in the U.S.

Jayden is now 1503, and Victor is 1595.

Jayden's stay at number two eight year old boy was short lived though, as he just turned nine.

This puts him at number six for U.S. boys nine and under and in the top twenty for boys ten and under.

I expect that he will be climbing those lists as the year progresses, as there are still have some areas in his game where he can make some big improvements.