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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 01:35 
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OK, so this thread is prompted by a special event that occurred for me tonight. Rather than bury it in a Reb Report, I figured it was worth a discussion as I'm sure others have a similar experience they can share.

If you don't want to read this rather long match description, just scroll to the end to respond to the question I put there
. ;)

Tonight we drew a team I have played many times before, except one of the members has gone away on a cruise. So there was a fill-in for him (who I beat much more easily than the guy who was away). But one of the other team members is the person this thread concerns.

He is a chopper. He has anti on his BH and normal inverted on the FH. Some may even call him a Retriever, but the way he retrieves, I class him as a chopper. Anyway, I've played this guy very often since 2010 when I first went from Tuesday B grade to Monday A grade at my club. For the first couple of years, I played him (and always lost) pretty much twice a season, except for the occasional season where his team would jump a grade ahead and then my team would usually catch up or his would drop back. Then around 2012 I finally cracked it to beat him in 5 sets. :party: And then we met their team in the A4 final in one of the seasons of 2012 and I beat him (and his 2 teammates) to win the final and go to A3. They were also promoted to A3 due to the competitions requirements. So, I played him twice again that season and beat him twice again (both in 5 sets).

Since then (in 4 more years), there has only been a few seasons I have not played him out of the 16-odd seasons there has been, due to being in different grades and he took one season off. But most seasons I played him twice a season. So doing the math, I played him maybe 15-20 more times. And each and every single time, I have LOST to him! It has been so frustrating, beyond frustrating!

I played him in the first round of this season, and guess what? I lost! 3-1, and that was the first time in ages I'd taken a set! :headbang: And our match had gone for over 45 minutes as I tried being ever so patient against him, resisting the urge to attack until I really had "the" shot. I did at least tire him out to make him easy meat for my teammate to play later that night.

Well tonight was round 6, and his team came around again. I dread playing them because I can never win 3 matches with him there, and the teammate of his that is on the cruise has been beating me lately too (where I had the wood on him for many years). So, I've been getting just 1 match against this team, which really hurts my win ratios.

So I play the 3rd player of the team first tonight and beat him 3-0. I play the fill-in and beat him 3-0. I come to the Chopper as the second last match of my team's night. We are leading 8-1. So winning this match is unnecessary for the team. But winning it would be a great personal achievement - which I think to myself every time I play him and walk away too easily defeated. I decide I won't play as patiently as I did last time though and I will attack more aggressively. And that worked for the first 4 points, where I was 3-1 up and had hit 3 winning loops out to his BH that he just couldn't reach. Looping really isn't my game though and I just couldn't keep the standard and quality of loop up needed to beat him and I ended up beating myself in trying. Lost it 11-5.

So in the next game I decided to mix it up a bit. Some FH loops mixed with some pip shots moving him around the table. During one of the "loops" which was more leaning toward the "smash-shot" that I favour, I hyper-extended my knee a bit and I stuffed my shot, and put paid to any more loops (I remember why I don't loop here, cos I have to produce too much pressure on the knee with footwork to make it viable :oops: ). Anyway, I drop back into the long rallying game with him. The rallies started going for 100, 200 perhaps even 300 hits each before a point was won (you think I'm exaggerating don't you :P ). But I have to say, lady luck smiled on me in this process. I was averaging 3-5 nets per game from hereon in. And when you are hitting pip shots long to him, then an angle, then another long to his opposite side and he's mostly back off the table...a net clip is deadly. But I wasn't just clipping the net, I was net dribbling them :devil: He would complain and grimace and I just said, sorry, but make me rally these long rallies and I'm gonna eventually hit the net! Tonight though, instead of eventually hitting the net and dropping back to my side, I was getting them drop over! :up: I won the 2nd set 13-11.

The third set went much the same way except I was getting sick of the endless rallies so on quite a few points I managed to work around to be on the BH side and put away some hooking smashes down his FH line that he simply couldn't reach. Despite this, we still had a LOT of long rallies and I got some more net dribbles. Of course I had the irksome balls that I netted (or worse) from lack of focus that caused the ball to hit my finger or the bat edge. But I managed to keep these to a minimum and I got him 11-9 with a smash down his FH line to go 2-1 up!

Now to this point my teamy who was playing last had been scoring. It was approaching 11pm though and he needed to play his match. We'd been playing for 50 minutes already! So someone else stepped in to score, while my teamy went and completed his match before this next set was over. :o

Suddenly, the sense that I could actually win against this guy came on me and made me ever more cautious. He also realised he could be beaten, and his caution level rose. So the rallies went back to being really long. I found myself with a 5-3 lead, then 6-4. Its amazing the things that go through your head while engaged in a long rally where you are trying to find a way to get through someone who just continually is chopping the ball back (this guy has virtually no attack - he will only attack on a high ball close to the net on his FH). Keeping focus on task is difficult. The hall is almost empty, so noise factor from those still having practice hits has risen. 2 playing 2 tables away make some massive noise slamming into a barrier or something, and distracts me to hitting the ball in the net. Its all SO tense! It's 7-5! Then its 8-6, and then I pull out to 10-8. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Its my serve and I send the spinniest topspin to his BH I can muster. He sends it back just a little high, with his customary chop. I've canned a few of these on him off that serve during the match if he's been loose (which he usually isn't). I have starlights in my eyes as I envision finally closing out this marathon. BANG! I smash.....straight into the net! His chop spin has dragged the ball more than I've allowed for. 10-9. I serve again, this time a mundane underspin (which he almost never nets). I'm just looking to settle down and rally with him trying to draw an error. He's made a few errors in the set from misjudging the pip spin. I think from tiredness creeping in, as he makes few errors in rallies (relying on the opponent to make the error for him to win, and he's expert at it). So this rally goes on 10, 15, 20 hits. Is this going to go deuce? Can I win this deuce like I did the last? This is going through my head when oops...I hit the net, it dribbles over! :P :lol: He is SOOOOOOO :punch: :swear: :@ peeved! Many words are offered as to how lucky I have been. :devil: He's a pretty nice guy and he's just venting his frustration (instead of me this time). I say ABOUT TIME!

MATCH IS MINE!! :party: :rock: :party: :up: First time I have beaten him in years and it feels great! I'm still pinching myself on the win! I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight! Mind you, my body is rather tired from the 70-odd minutes the match went that I stood there, demanding a lot from myself, physically and mentally. So who knows?

So, have you got someone in your club that you dread playing because you always lose to them? Have you ever managed to beat them? Describe how that felt? Or perhaps there's another reason you dread playing them? Share your experience with me and the forum in this thread!

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 02:25 
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Haha i know that feeling, but against overwhelming opponents, like the wins are not so convincing, i felt either they are on offday , or they let me win once in a while (which is not the case most of the time cause i know they have so much pride) So even as im chasing the win, i still need to know that i have improved while doing so.

In this case i need to fight them again and again to be sure of myself , the score cant be i win this week and next week i lose. 50/50 is not acceptable. haha.thats just me.

but yeah to me defeating one convincingly after few months show real progress. and only will let me move forward with my game in search of better opponents and improving more in more areas of my game (right now im struggling with a short table chopper, with a knack of heavy sidespin serves, very frustrating opponent.)

I've only managed to convicingly blow past someone with aggresive fh dominant forward loop player, who at one time tire me out with his looping game every match i got with him, and i built my loops ground up with bh included, and focus on control/precision in order to finally beat him overtime.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 05:51 
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Mmm. My most dreaded opponents tend to fall in to two types.

One's I never beat because they are much better than me, so I can't answer your question as I've never beaten them.

And one's I'm ranked much higher than and all my team mates beat with ease, yet I really struggle with. When I do beat them I can't let on how concerned I was about playing them as that will give them confidence for the next time I play them so I pretend to be relaxed. Deep down though I feel mighty relieved and continue to watch how my team mates play them to see if I can pick up any tactics.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 07:09 
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Well, im not very good compared to you guys, but im good enough to really seem serious :3 anyways, my constant partner and one of my best friends since we were 9-10 years old (we're 14 now) is my most dreaded opponent, because he had a better foundation for the basics, he was better in all physical aspects than me (except for burst power, noticeable when I do a kill counter loop and win the point), and he was SMART. But starting recently, Ive been getting close, and FRIDAY, Ive been able to beat him! :party: :party: :rofl: :rofl: It felt so gooooood, because i FINALLY felt that grasp i needed to beat him, it just clicked in me. Like, you just fall down and roll screaming over and over. Anyways, It was reeeeeaaaalllyyyyyy goooooooooooooood.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 12:16 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Anyway, I drop back into the long rallying game with him. The rallies started going for 100, 200 perhaps even 300 hits each before a point was won (you think I'm exaggerating don't you :P ).


Yes, I do... :lol: And it didn't go to expedite??

Quote:
We'd been playing for 50 minutes already!


And this was what - end of the third game? :lol: :lol: :lol: (I guess that answers it... )

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 20:18 
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iskandar taib wrote:
RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Anyway, I drop back into the long rallying game with him. The rallies started going for 100, 200 perhaps even 300 hits each before a point was won (you think I'm exaggerating don't you :P ).


Yes, I do... :lol: And it didn't go to expedite??

Quote:
We'd been playing for 50 minutes already!


And this was what - end of the third game? :lol: :lol: :lol: (I guess that answers it... )

Iskandar



Yep, no expedite rules in play at my club :lol: :lol:

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 20:27 
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Debater wrote:
Mmm. My most dreaded opponents tend to fall in to two types.

One's I never beat because they are much better than me, so I can't answer your question as I've never beaten them.

And one's I'm ranked much higher than and all my team mates beat with ease, yet I really struggle with. When I do beat them I can't let on how concerned I was about playing them as that will give them confidence for the next time I play them so I pretend to be relaxed. Deep down though I feel mighty relieved and continue to watch how my team mates play them to see if I can pick up any tactics.


This chopper sort of falls into your second category there Debater. There's no shame in losing to him, as he's a skilled defender. But if you have the shots naturally (ie. a good effective topspin game combined with kill shots) , he's very beatable. My teammates both beat him, although one was in 4 and one in 5, so not so easily. So losing to him constantly is kind of an embarrassment. There are others I'm more embarrassed to lose to though (which also happens occasionally :oops: :lol: ). So I know what you mean.

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2016, 23:02 
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I beat my most dreaded opponent, or rather the opponent that I disliked the most, when I was technically 1100, but playing more like 1300. I had just recently been introduced to LPs and the Shakehand grip, as I had recently converted from a lifetime of basement level Jpen.

He was a guy who at the time I thought was high level, who hates long pips and complains when he has to play people lower than him. He is the rudest, most arrogant person I've met in TT. A complete jerk. Happened to be from Italy, and is known to be a generally unfriendly person by his clubmates. I've had his clubmates apologize to me for his behavior, and we almost had a physical altercation.

He made fun of my equipment, which at the time was the Hallmark Aurora, and complained that pips are for cheaters who can't play real TT and that I needed to get a bat from a real TT company, which to him was Butterfly. "What kind of blade is that? Hallmark? Who the hell plays with Hallmark? You need to change your equipment. Nobody uses that brand." I replied, "Yes they do, there are plenty of defensive players that use this brand." To which he replied "WHO?! Huh? Nobody!"

What an idiot. He made the comment "LPs don't matter to a person at my level."

Shortly thereafter I defeated him in 5. Guess he wasn't that great after all. In hindsight, I would have estimated his level at about 1500. I haven't played him since, because I dislike that club, but I would reckon I could beat him as a double inverted attacker at this point....assuming he's still at the same level. In fact, this has made me think I might pay a visit to that club just to do that! I'll chop him down as a defender and when he complains I'll switch and beat him again.

I actually blogged about this long ago: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=25575&start=15#p282809

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 03:02 
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My most dreaded opponent isn't the most skilled opponent. However there's skill in how he plays against me, which is the most laid-back casual looking style of play as if he doesn't care where the ball goes or how he hits it. Tight games are won with his lucky bounce or edge balls. He definitely comes in with a lot of confidence against me when we match up. He's truly a frustrating player for me to play against in which I lose to 80% of the time. He plays just like a defender and lets me force the errors.

Of the consistent group of players I play with, he's probably in the bottom 1/4th if we were to rank ourselves as everyone else seems to be able to beat him. I've continuously moved up every week, and would be in the low part of the top 1/3 of our group. Yet, he's THAT dreaded player!

Lately I've been beating him decisively. It had a lot to do with the mental part of the game I think.

In regards to how it feels to beat him, sure it feels great, but now when we play, he doesn't come in to the match with the confidence like he once had. I've also slowed down my game against him and don't doubt myself that I can win the match. It definitely had a lot to do with the mental aspect.


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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 14:30 
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Japsican wrote:
I beat my most dreaded opponent, or rather the opponent that I disliked the most, when I was technically 1100, but playing more like 1300. I had just recently been introduced to LPs and the Shakehand grip, as I had recently converted from a lifetime of basement level Jpen.

He was a guy who at the time I thought was high level, who hates long pips and complains when he has to play people lower than him. He is the rudest, most arrogant person I've met in TT. A complete jerk. Happened to be from Italy, and is known to be a generally unfriendly person by his clubmates. I've had his clubmates apologize to me for his behavior, and we almost had a physical altercation.

He made fun of my equipment, which at the time was the Hallmark Aurora, and complained that pips are for cheaters who can't play real TT and that I needed to get a bat from a real TT company, which to him was Butterfly. "What kind of blade is that? Hallmark? Who the hell plays with Hallmark? You need to change your equipment. Nobody uses that brand." I replied, "Yes they do, there are plenty of defensive players that use this brand." To which he replied "WHO?! Huh? Nobody!"

What an idiot. He made the comment "LPs don't matter to a person at my level."

Shortly thereafter I defeated him in 5. Guess he wasn't that great after all. In hindsight, I would have estimated his level at about 1500. I haven't played him since, because I dislike that club, but I would reckon I could beat him as a double inverted attacker at this point....assuming he's still at the same level. In fact, this has made me think I might pay a visit to that club just to do that! I'll chop him down as a defender and when he complains I'll switch and beat him again.

I actually blogged about this long ago: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=25575&start=15#p282809


Oh I have THAT kind of dreaded player also Japs. Except I have to play him quite frequently. Played him twice just recently (and beat him both times (and blogged about it). Nasty person. If you have to play them, you might as well beat them :devil: :lol: 8)

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 14:41 
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There are two players at our club that are clearly better than the others. Then a small cluster below. I've been working hard over the last couple of years to improve to be in that cluster below, which I've done. I was highly motivated to improve.

Last season I beat the no 2 player for the first time. This is a big thing as he rarely loses to anyone but the no 1 player. You would think that it would motivate me to work hard to beat him again and challenge the no 1 guy. It actually did the opposite. It could also be the weather and me finding it hard to get outside with the robot, but since that win, I've now got a bit of 'been there done that kind of attitude'. The carrot has disappeared somewhat.

This has happened to me in many sports. Golf, cycling, running, darts. I had a goal and once I achieved it, my motivation reduced and I ended up giving up 6 months later. Each time though it was another challenge that came along rather than me just giving up. Nothing on the horizon for now though...... :sweat: :sweat:

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 15:06 
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Next target: Beat the No. 1 guy. :lol:

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2016, 21:37 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Next target: Beat the No. 1 guy. :lol:

Iskandar


Yup, unless #1 is way above you, then it could be 'beat #2 all the time' ;) . I guess I'm fortunate enough to be in a target-rich environment, with plenty of them within reach. Quite a few of dreaded ones too.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2016, 18:09 
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Cobalt wrote:
There are two players at our club that are clearly better than the others. Then a small cluster below. I've been working hard over the last couple of years to improve to be in that cluster below, which I've done. I was highly motivated to improve.

Last season I beat the no 2 player for the first time. This is a big thing as he rarely loses to anyone but the no 1 player. You would think that it would motivate me to work hard to beat him again and challenge the no 1 guy. It actually did the opposite. It could also be the weather and me finding it hard to get outside with the robot, but since that win, I've now got a bit of 'been there done that kind of attitude'. The carrot has disappeared somewhat.

This has happened to me in many sports. Golf, cycling, running, darts. I had a goal and once I achieved it, my motivation reduced and I ended up giving up 6 months later. Each time though it was another challenge that came along rather than me just giving up. Nothing on the horizon for now though...... :sweat: :sweat:



Beating someone once doesn't mean you have achieved the goal though Cobalt. If it is, you're setting the wrong goals. If you get to the stage where you're beating no.2 and no.1 regularly, then you might lose motivation. I'd say by then you want to be setting goals to go to tournaments more and beat players above you there ;)

I have a mate who used to play TT. He came to my club (on my encouragement, I even gave him a $10 setup for his birthday) about 7 years ago and played in B5. His team won the Final in his first season. B5 is the lowest grade in the club! But he promptly quit TT and hasn't played again. He said he achieved something great and he'd leave it at that. :headbang:

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2016, 23:28 
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^agreed. U gotta beat someone at regular basis to eventually lose interest in improving urself. As long as there's someone better than me I'll challenge him until I can beat him regularly.

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