OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?

IMO at top levels, every player have studied each other enough that the factor of predictability is eliminated in a sense whether you're a defender or off player.
I think the consistency of killshots just leans more to the offensive players nowadays.

My two cents.

(me myself get destroyed by jpenholders with one side of drn killer pro on the weekly baysis!)

They aren't a dying breed. They are just rare to begin with. It takes a certain personality.....with less of them there will always be less of them at the top.

Also in true honesty if there was more of us I probably wouldn't want to be one. Its the fact that we are rare that makes us so awesome lol.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

The ITTF, and specifically Eberhard Schoeler, have been out to get long pips defenders for a long time, since the 1990s. How he convinced Sharara that killing defense makes the game more attractive makes no sense. Those are the most exciting games when they’re competitive.

At the pro level, the larger, plastic ball spins even less than the original 40mm ball. The ITTF ought to compensate for the new ball by allowing thicker sponge, relaxing the aspect ratio for pips and eliminating the minimum friction.

Herr Weikert, if you’re listening, the suggestions above will do 1000x more for table tennis than the abomination called TTX.

Author:	Roy [ 22 Oct 2016, 03:01 ]
Post subject:	Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
JOO Saehyuk 36 years GIONIS Panagiotis 36 years MURAMATSU Yuto 20 years WANG Yang 22 years CHEN Weixing 44 years SHIONO Masato 30 years FILUS Ruwen 28 years PATTANTYUS Adam 38 years WANG Xi 32 years HOU yingchao ? MA Te ? Joo, Gionis, Chen, Pattantyus and Hou are close to retiring age. Shiono has't progressed lately. Filus sem to have gone down in rating. We have maybe 2 young promising(?) players in top 100, Muramatsu and Wang. Are there any promising young defenders coming?

Author:	Lorre [ 22 Oct 2016, 05:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
The good ones are almost retired. The young ones aren't up to par: yet, according to some, but I don't think they'll get there. So the question is: why? Maybe they attack too much and their attacks are therefore too predictable. Or the style is slowly dying because of a lack of teaching. Forget Wang: he's IMO too impulsive. I don't know what to think of Muramatsu. He has everything to be a very good defender, but he's not there (yet). But I don't think he'll get there. I don't know why: just my instincts. Ruwen Filus attacks too much and lacks defensive skills. Maybe another explanation is the defensive style lives from creativity and the young ones are just clones. I wonder e.g. why not more defenders go back to defensive inverted rubbers again instead of Tenergy. Because of the ban of speed glue their attacks aren't lethal anymore, so control could be a better option for a defender's game. Or why not a defender with both sides inverted?

Author:	BeGo [ 22 Oct 2016, 08:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
https://tabletennisdefenders.wordpress.com/ for modern defender, no addition after Kim Song I yet. for classical defender, no addition after Chtchetinine Yet Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

Author:	kim biceps [ 22 Oct 2016, 09:04 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
IMO at top levels, every player have studied each other enough that the factor of predictability is eliminated in a sense whether you're a defender or off player. I think the consistency of killshots just leans more to the offensive players nowadays. My two cents. (me myself get destroyed by jpenholders with one side of drn killer pro on the weekly baysis!)

Author:	leatherback [ 22 Oct 2016, 12:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
They aren't a dying breed. They are just rare to begin with. It takes a certain personality.....with less of them there will always be less of them at the top. Also in true honesty if there was more of us I probably wouldn't want to be one. Its the fact that we are rare that makes us so awesome lol. Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

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Author:	Lorre [ 22 Oct 2016, 21:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
kim biceps wrote: IMO at top levels, every player have studied each other enough that the factor of predictability is eliminated in a sense whether you're a defender or off player. I think the consistency of killshots just leans more to the offensive players nowadays. My two cents. (me myself get destroyed by jpenholders with one side of drn killer pro on the weekly baysis!) I think you're right here. But this environment is created by the ITTF and can be changed by the ITTF. With good rule changes for once. leatherback wrote: They aren't a dying breed. They are just rare to begin with. It takes a certain personality.....with less of them there will always be less of them at the top. Also in true honesty if there was more of us I probably wouldn't want to be one. Its the fact that we are rare that makes us so awesome lol. Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk I love to be a part of a minority group, but one that's so small? I can count the defensive players on my two hands I know of in my region. I need at least more than 100 fingers to count attackers I know of. I think more defenders could be a blessing, if they are still a minority group. And awesome? Yes, for/according to us. But for the rest of the world... Only a minority of "them" can truly appreciate what we are.

Author:	Attacker [ 22 Oct 2016, 21:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
Without knowing the exakt numbers I believe nowadays we have more female defenders than in the past. To become a competetive defender takes time and nowadays you also have to be an excelent attacker in addition , as well. Else they just will wait and pick the right ball to sink your ship

Author:	alphapong [ 23 Oct 2016, 14:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
Quote: WANG Yang 22 years By my estimation Wang Yang is around 26. https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/foru ... ompetition

Author:	RebornTTEvnglist [ 23 Oct 2016, 15:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
The attraction of TT for most young kids is blasting the ball with heavy topspin. And the cycle I've observed in the last 10 years since my return to TT and playing a modern defensive/pushblocking game is that kids get beaten by it until they learn how to overcome it, and then they don't look back. Not too many kids are beaten by it for so long they decide if you can't beat 'em join 'em. And almost none are encouraged to do so anyway. And then, when they get really good, and by that I mean good enough to go and train in China or play a European circuit...they are forced to keep pushing down the line which they've taken...power attack! It makes sense the only places we see professional standard defenders come from are like Korea and Japan (and the odd one in Europe). They're about the only countries that rate a chance of a defender learning enough to succeed.

Author:	Tilted1 [ 23 Oct 2016, 16:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
I think another issue is the issue of exposure. Similar to western players who prefer pen hold having rarely any tutorials or video to use as guidelines, player who play a chopping playstyle face the same problems. To add onto this issue, there is also of players being shunned away from using LP at an amateur level or the fact that on a recreational level you wont be able to produce the amount of spin required on a cheap bat to stand a chance against offence play. I don't know, I'm speaking from a complete newbie perspective/spectator but I think with the points mentioned above, along with these all add up together as to why people tend to lean towards an offence style over a defensive playstyle.

Author:	Lorre [ 23 Oct 2016, 21:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
I agree with all points made so far. However, it's sad, though. Defenders are the only saving grace the game has for ordinary viewers who don't know much (if anything) about TT. They find it amusing a player keeps getting the ball back with such gracious moves and forcing an error. They don't understand why there's an error, but who cares? It's a rally and it's spectacular. Take away defenders and you'll get a sport that's never going to make it. They can't discriminate themselves from tennis. It's the amount of spin in combination with speed and the amount of different styles that the game kept interesting, even for ordinary viewers. Now the ITTF is almost finished killing all these ingredients. They're on the right track of killing the sport altogether.

Author:	Retriever [ 24 Oct 2016, 06:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
I agree with leatherback - defensive players have or need to have a certain personality or philosophy. I remember reading that defensive players, particularly modern defenders need to master table tennis twice, once as a purely defensive player, but then again as an attacker, hence why they tend to be a little older when they attain their best results.

Author:	Roy [ 24 Oct 2016, 06:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
I am afraid the Emmanuel Lebesson's win in the European championship will dictate the future direction of TT - all out attack from very close to table. I have feeling that the new ball is just too easy to attack with enough force in men's game, so that defending is becoming futile attempt. Many of the best defenders today have started playing with 38 mm ball and it's squirrely properties may have given them easy points at start of their career. Now young defender has upphill battle with 40+ ball, as easy pip points are history. I also think that world class defender has to be much more talented athlete to start with. Agility must be great. When I watched Joo playing in chinese superleague agaist some Chinese player, Joo was running around and the chinese were mostly just swinging their arm and standing still.

Author:	mynamenotbob [ 25 Oct 2016, 15:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
The ITTF, and specifically Eberhard Schoeler, have been out to get long pips defenders for a long time, since the 1990s. How he convinced Sharara that killing defense makes the game more attractive makes no sense. Those are the most exciting games when they’re competitive. At the pro level, the larger, plastic ball spins even less than the original 40mm ball. The ITTF ought to compensate for the new ball by allowing thicker sponge, relaxing the aspect ratio for pips and eliminating the minimum friction. Herr Weikert, if you’re listening, the suggestions above will do 1000x more for table tennis than the abomination called TTX.

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Author:	Lorre [ 25 Oct 2016, 23:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Are defenders a dying breed in top level?
mynamenotbob wrote: The ITTF, and specifically Eberhard Schoeler, have been out to get long pips defenders for a long time, since the 1990s. How he convinced Sharara that killing defense makes the game more attractive makes no sense. Those are the most exciting games when they’re competitive. At the pro level, the larger, plastic ball spins even less than the original 40mm ball. The ITTF ought to compensate for the new ball by allowing thicker sponge, relaxing the aspect ratio for pips and eliminating the minimum friction. Herr Weikert, if you’re listening, the suggestions above will do 1000x more for table tennis than the abomination called TTX. True that.