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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 06:57 
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I just posted this yesterday in the Australian Open topic. The post sort of went off topic so I thought that I would start a new topic where it won't (nor will anything else much) be :)

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The following is about the area, state, etc that I live.

At the lowest level we have clubs with a small number of tables. The concerns of those (unpaid) who run such is:
Have somewhere to play
To cover costs
Run club programs
Enter teams in the local competition

The next level up is the local association. The concerns of those (unpaid) who run such is:
Organize and run the pennant competitions in conjunction with the clubs
Organize and run association championship tournament
To cover costs
To run their clubs

The next level up is the local state organization. The concerns of those (unpaid) who run such is:
Organize and run state level tournaments
Organize state representative teams for the various national tournaments - junior, senior & veterans
To cover costs

Under the local state organization is the state Umpires & Referees Association. The concerns of those (unpaid) who run such is:
Provision of referee and umpires to state level tournaments
Education of new and upgrading of existing umpires & referees
To cover costs

As you can see, the majority (totality) of work is done in an honorary, unpaid capacity.

Players begrudge paying money, at least partly because historically TT clubs were sub clubs of licensed clubs and so were heavily subsidised by the poker machine playing and alcohol consumption largely of others. What, they cry, we have to pay money every week to play socially or in competition? Also, what, they grumble, does our state affiliation fee give us?

As a result there is no money available to market the game. Get sponsors. There are sponsors for balls, so balls are supplied a little more cheaply. The state vice president circulates such ideas as utilizing older people to run stuff because ("community service") can be used by the older people while they get unemployment benefits so free labour. Last year we were inflicted with a rewards scheme under the auspices of the state, which, while giving instant rewards either in price reductions or kind were really just another spending tracker. I am not sure how much the state was going to make out of the scheme.

I am on the committee that runs the local association. At the association we have discussed World Table Tennis day on the 6th April, and encouraged each other to do something, but nothing will get done. I am one of 2 people that run table tennis at a community centre for 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon. We rely on a sign on the main road outside that is only there for the time we are open, and a free listing in our local newspaper that is not in there when we are on and in there when we are not there more often than not. We charge $5 for the 2 hours (and pay it ourselves as we are concerned with covering our costs). To the new people who turn up we are able to offer loan bats, a flyer on the clubs in the local association, free advice on buying a reasonable bat and some pointers on both how to play and the rules. To people that want to be more serious we put them in touch with a nearby local club.

I am a semi-active state level umpire. I have umpired at local tournaments, state level tournaments, the junior, senior and veterans national championships, the Australian Open a couple of times that it has been in Sydney, the Australian and Oceania Olympic Qualification tournaments for the 2012 London Olympics again in Sydney.

I see how poorly things are organized from both the inside and the outside. The main constraint that I see is money. As a result, people organizing table tennis events are used to being, in the words of my children, "povo". This means that if sponsorship is received, it is requested to cover the barest bones of what is happening. In the case of the upcoming Australian Open, there will apparently be $US384,000 on prize money for the players. I have no idea how much will go towards mainstream advertising, more than just a page or two on the TTA web site (when?) and linked to by the various state web sites. I also have no idea whether set up and tear down, ushering, emceeing etc will be professionally done or whether it will be done by volunteers as has been the case in the past in Sydney.

I and many in TT circles hold down a full time job and have a family. I spend 2.5 hours a week volunteering to provide a table tennis facility to the public and the same again per month to help run the local association. I umpire at the Bennelong Cup for a few meals. Other umpiring is either at the usual stipend (which is nowhere near what my day job pays) and meals or for meals only or only for the love of it. I really do it for the love of it, but if I as a lowly state umpire am accepted to officiate at national and effectively international level, that says something about the availability of umpires.

Next week on behalf of the local association I will be taking a half a day leave to check out a PCYC that is about to be completed in our area and talk to the manager there about table tennis usage of its facilities.

Unfortunately, I am not in marketing, nor do I play a marketer on daytime TV, and in any case there is no money for it.

I am a retriever. :)

(edited very slightly from the original post, just because.)

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 09:06 
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I think the response would be, "if you don't like it, don't do it!" Not saying that would be my reaction because I've walked away from being on committees out of frustration, but it is the reaction of many I've encountered.

I've said it before and I'll say it again and I don't care if people take exception or think I'm being unreasonable - table tennis players can be the most selfish of people in sport that I've come across. Sometimes the perception is they are doing you a favour by turning up to play, that they are entitled to be treated special and that there is absolutely no responsibility on them to put anything back in to the sport, other than grace it with their presence.

But there are also genuinely good people in the game too. As for how things are organised - we are lucky in Preston, for now. In a few years time though, when our lease on the table tennis venue is up for renewal, when the lead organiser is likely to pack in, then it could be a different story. I notice there was no mention of coaching - formal coaching, or connections with schools, or local council / government sports bodies, or grants or partnerships with other sports bodies or eductational establishments.

If you packed in retriever, I mean just walked away from table tennis, what impact do you think it would have on table tennis in your local community and how does that make you feel?


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 10:15 
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Personally I am always grateful to anyone who does anything for anything that I am involved with. And I try to give something back. So, I give public talks for Diabetes UK, for instance, and was heavily involved in student side participation on committees at university when I was a mature student. (Although I have stories about both that still get me riled).

But table tennis is a special case, and I am struggling to understand how to promote it as a sport, even within a local area, let alone to the wider (TV) world in the UK. Although I understand that Sky next week will be showing highlights of the national championships, they did actually take place a few weeks ago, so everyone who is interested already knows the result and thus has no reason to watch, so the figures will reflect that...

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 10:38 
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Debater wrote:
Quote:
I notice there was no mention of coaching - formal coaching, or connections with schools, or local council / government sports bodies, or grants or partnerships with other sports bodies or eductational establishments.


I guess that is because I am not involved in that side of things. I grew up without coaching and so did not concentrate on it a great deal.

The coaches that I know of seem (that is my view of it anyway) to be in it for themselves. I recall that when a very good junior Chinese import arrived a number of years ago there was intense competition among a couple of coaches to be able to say that "he was theirs" which seemed to be for the reflected glory - how good he was was entirely due to the coaching prior to him arriving here.

The state level organisation does concern itself with coaching of juniors, but mostly at the elite level preparing for the nationals.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 18:20 
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Coaching is absolutely vital to the life blood of our league. None of our coaches or helpers are paid but coaches have their tt england training and continuous development costs, licence and insurance cover provided by the league. We also team up with other leagues and the regional development camp run by graham coupe so that kids with desire and talent can progress to higher levels. We set the ground work and feed in to a structured development path. You can't be precious about kids. You're there to help them and that means knowing when it's time to let go.

The money coaching brings in helps subsidise league playing members. They often don't realise or care about that but do care when fees go up as that directly affects them. Coaching children also opens up doors to obtaining grants to fund all aspects of the league, it brings parents into contact with the game, builds relationships with schools and activities like scouts and cubs and the kids feed into our league play. I'll expand more on this when I answer darucla's question he asked me in another thread.


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 19:55 
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Note also that I made no direct reference to actually playing table tennis either.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 20:26 
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The only person I know who has a vision for table tennis in my area is my coach, although he is finding it a struggle to get funding to fulfil that vision. But in general, I feel that coaching from a professional, almost none of whom are getting rich out of table tennis, is the best way to improve your game very quickly. And that hopefully leads to an improvement in the game's image in the wider world.

I suspect chicken and egg metaphors apply when discussing table tennis, money, public interest and TV rights.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 20:51 
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darucla wrote:
The only person I know who has a vision for table tennis in my area is my coach, although he is finding it a struggle to get funding to fulfil that vision. But in general, I feel that coaching from a professional, almost none of whom are getting rich out of table tennis, is the best way to improve your game very quickly. And that hopefully leads to an improvement in the game's image in the wider world.

I suspect chicken and egg metaphors apply when discussing table tennis, money, public interest and TV rights.


Why does it have to be from a professional? Can it not be from a qualified "amateur" who operates within a well run organisational setup?

One of the big issues i have with funding in the UK is the obsession with "gold medals" and a passing interest in increasing participation numbers. What happened to "faster, higher, stronger". It's now win win win. Look at the mess UK cycling is now in, once heralded by our "purse string" bodies as THE approach to development and organisation. UK swimming where allegations of bullying are surfacing. Our "purse string" bodies are now back tracking with "we can't be held responsible for the way every sport is run", but they were quick to say "and this is a model organisation for you to follow" - the same organisations they now distance themselves from. How many parents will want to trust their children to sporting bodies which possibly condone dubious practises? Look too at football in the UK. Massive world wide interest. Billlions of money paid in TV rights. If it was payment by results, like the gold medal syndrome / obsession of UK Sport, football would be dropped because the performance of premier league teams in european competition is declining and the national team has won nothing in over 50 years.

To improve the profile of table tennis, you need to understand what your market is, what they want and find the best way to deliver it. We have a world governing body that focuses on the "professional" sector of the sport and isn't responsible for social or national level development - as Adham Shahara continually reminded us on this forum (in my opinion abdicating responsibility but that's another issue). Yet the ITTF then comes up with new "world ways" to develop the game socially. Stay out of it or get involved - make your mind up ITTF. We also have a sport which is more fun to play than watch on tv. But if TV is the only medium that raises it's profile high enough for people to want to play socially what do you do. Well there are masses you can do. Just don't expect the support or interest of all those around you, or those bodies which have lost site of why sport is / should be played.

Different market segments - and we have to accept table tennis has those - require different approaches with an over arching business model / plan which pulls it all together. Table tennis is too fractured, certainly from reading about peoples experiences on this forum from all alround the world. As much as I've been critical of TT England, at least we in the UK have a structure players at all levels can plug in to. Perhaps what we really need to do is get better at promotting that.


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 21:57 
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Promotion is the big x-factor. I used to work in marketing, for audio-visual industry companies, and I found that the best way to promote my company was to build relationships with the press that concentrated on that industry. That and advertising of course, but the relationships were more important and much less expensive. That was in a field where I was only really responsible for my own product, in an established general market. (What happened to that market in later years is another story). With table tennis, the whole concept needs pushing.

I am not against the idea of a British team going to world championships with a belief that they could win a medal, perhaps even gold. But that's not the first thought I have. I believe in the power of exercise to make our lives better. I say this as someone who was stopped by health issues (I believe wrongly) a long time ago, and has recently reversed a severe decline by actively engaging in cycling and table tennis.

Anyone can get a bike and go riding, but table tennis, although not necessarily more expensive, is rather more demanding in terms of space and the need for someone to play. Thus the sport needs money to provide facilities for people to get together and play. Hence the need for a professional body at a local level. We need people who can make a decent living wage to run venues and teach beginners. I would absolutely love to have one full-time dedicated space within a 30 mile radius where I could turn up any day, any time, and get a game. But the problem remains; how do we get the kick-start to provide the initial funding? I'd love a fraction of the money that is put into cycling. And meanwhile we have millions put into sailing facilities at a nearby lake.

In a few weeks, I am going to talk to a group of small children (infants and juniors), about Diabetes. I would really like to be able to tell them to play table tennis as one of the fun forms of exercise that I want them to do. But if there is no accessible table tennis facility, that is not productive.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2017, 22:57 
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darucla wrote:
Promotion is the big x-factor. I used to work in marketing, for audio-visual industry companies, and I found that the best way to promote my company was to build relationships with the press that concentrated on that industry. That and advertising of course, but the relationships were more important and much less expensive.

I'm genuinely interested in how building relationships with media helps promoting of a product (or sport for that matter). How did that work?

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