OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi Everyone,

With Frictionless Anti-Loops designed to replace Frictionless Long pips, the development over the years of the frictionless Anti-Loops, and them undoubtedly getting easier to use and more effective it leaves the question........ Which produces more disruptive effect Frictionless Long Pips or Frictionless Anti-Loops?

To Find out I'm comparing a verity of the Dr Neubauer Frictionless Anti-Loops (Bison, Buffalo, Power Attack, Rhino & Gorilla) against the infamous Dr Neubauer Super Block! OX/ no sponge (the deadly one)

To make this fair i have placed one of the frictionless antis (Bison) on the same blade as the Super Block that blade is Dr Neubauer Kung Fu, the rubber is also the same colour (Red) to make this as fair as possible, However the rest of the Antis are on different blades and will be mixed around blades also, this is to test what blade produces the greatest effect from the Antis,
There are also different thicknesses & colours (Red & Black) of the same anti to see weather the colour effects the disruption & the optimal sponge for the most Disruption (sponges range from 0.6mm-2.0mm).

The blades i will be using are Dr Neubauer blades, they are Kung Fu, Jackpot, barricade, world champion carbon, Matador, Matador Texa, Phenomenon, Hercules & Titan.

Rather than just saying my findings I'm creating a video so you can see the findings & effects for yourselves, i want to make sure the video is as informative as it can be and for this reason may take some time to film, I'm also getting a verity of people to film with and get there opinions documented, if your interested in being part of this video or helping and your local to me (Yorkshire UK) then please get in touch with me on here or via my website (darkartstabletennis.co.uk)

In the mean time, while the video is being made, i will report my findings on here, along with some photos of the bats, these photos will also be on my Facebook page (dark arts table tennis)

Kind regards
Dark Arts TT

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Dark Arts Table Tennis
The Pips Out Specialists
Professional Pips Out & Anti-Loop Coaching
http://darkartstabletennis.co.uk

this kind of endeavour, as interesting as it may be, in its form as a video is actually inclined to make certain figures in the ittf ponder about banning frictionless antis too

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Blade: Barna Original Triumph Forehand Yasaka Razka Po Backhand Der-Materialspezialist Störkraft 0.8
http://www.instagram.com/dragontattooguy

At least it would then show some sort of consistency. Mind you, I would prefer that the consistency be in the direction of allowing pimples to have the same lower limit of friction as smooth rubbers, not that smooth rubbers have the same lower limit of friction as pimples.

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Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

that will never happen.

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Blade: Barna Original Triumph Forehand Yasaka Razka Po Backhand Der-Materialspezialist Störkraft 0.8
http://www.instagram.com/dragontattooguy

Can anyone explain to me why some players found "frictionless" LPs so obnoxious to play against that they lobbied to have them banned? Is there something that distinguishes them from normal somewhat-grippy LPs besides higher reversal?

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Seeking joy and fitness in recreational modern defense.
My blog: "Two rubbers, one racket"
Kill the game against long Pimps with Coach Li!

Currently experimenting with short pips:
VKMO+ Gambler Volt-T + TSP Spectol Blue (1.5)
Joola CWX + Nittaku Hurricane III Pro Turbo Orange + Spinlord Gepard (1.8 )

No, nothing else, just higher reversal. The ostensible problem was that they allowed players who had no skill to stand there and passively block loops, which frustrated some other players who thought they were more skilled because they were good at doing those loops and didn't like seeing such loops blocked back with a load of underspin because, apparently, they were skilled at doing those loops once, and maybe twice, but not three or four times in a row, especially when they got blocked back at awkward angles. Translation: there were many more double inverted players than frictionless long pips players, so the majority (through its representatives at the ITTF) used the power of majority rule to dumb down the game to make it easier for them to play.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

actually the spin transferred by frictionless antis can be higher than with the best frictionless pimples. the main reason was that unlike frictionless antis, they required far less skill and adjustment so that even "less talented/skilled" players had an easier time in blocking hard and spinny loops. since frictionless antis require far more skill, far more less players transitioned from frictionless pimpes to the anti.

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Blade: Barna Original Triumph Forehand Yasaka Razka Po Backhand Der-Materialspezialist Störkraft 0.8
http://www.instagram.com/dragontattooguy

I think the reality is that, as far as the ITTF is concerned, the difference between frictionless long pips (banned) and frictionless antis (not yet banned) is less about skill and more simply that frictionless antis weren't yet on the ITTF's radar in 2008 (since they didn't exist back then). As more and more such antis appear on the market and become more effective and more user-friendly, with players such as yourself or Sushmit Sriram appearing and giving traditional loopers trouble, the ITTF will (unfortunately) be forced to take action and reconcile its position on frictionless long pips with its position on frictionless antis.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

even if the current slick antis have become more user friendly, the experience is still no where near as easy as with frictionless long pimples, which is why they neither play a big role in hobby tabletennis and virtually no role on the ittf level. the discussion during adhams term concerning frictionless long pimples was lead under the title "unfair advantage"..that i see nowhere with frictionless antis, for otherwise much more people would be playing them when the truth however is, that many players tend to give up on them.

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Blade: Barna Original Triumph Forehand Yasaka Razka Po Backhand Der-Materialspezialist Störkraft 0.8
http://www.instagram.com/dragontattooguy

Hi Everyone,

Interesting comments,

I will state I'm happy to not do the review if you all prefer? Just to keep ITTF away from frictionless antis,

However a couple of points/questions

As stated the frictionless antis are a lot harder to use than FLP, yes they produce an amazing effect as good if not better than FLP however to obtain that effect with frictionless antis you have to train hard, and keep up the training, one of the main complaints about FLP was effectively that you can win without skill, with Frictionless antis that's definitely not the case, so on that front what would the issue the ITTF would have?

The other question is are Frictionless antis popular enough to be considered for a banning?
FLPs where quite popular and easy to use therefore there where lots of complaints, as far as I can see in the uk at least (please correct me if I'm wrong here) but there are not that many players using Frictionless antis in comparison to FLPs, as I coach Pips out and Anti-Loop styles i always suggest to my students who have used FLPs in the passed to try Frictionless anties, most of them have tried frictionless anties in the early days straight after the ban when they where next to impossible to use, not liked them and immediately switched, never tried again, and now have adapted there style to long pips with grip or some other style,
Again in the local league how many people use frictionless anties? How many complaints are made? Both in comparison to FLPs?

What do you all think?

Kind regards
Dark Arts TT

_________________
Dark Arts Table Tennis
The Pips Out Specialists
Professional Pips Out & Anti-Loop Coaching
http://darkartstabletennis.co.uk

Go ahead, do the review, it will be interesting

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

What makes frictionless anti harder to use for a close-to-the-table blocking game than frictionless LPs?

If it were simply the case that the LPs are 'soft' and take more pace off the ball, I would expect that you could mount the frictionless anti topsheet either on super-thin sponge (thin enough that there is little/no sponge effect, thick enough that there is clearly sponge there so your racket is legal) on a super slow defensive blade and achieve the same effect. Alternatively, you could use max-thickness sponge of the deadening type.

I wouldn't think that the lack of other shots (punch, sideswipe) would make the difference as an unskilled player isn't going to be pulling those off anyways.



(I should also mention, I'm not at all interested in using frictionless anything myself, just curious as to the mechanics of these things)

_________________
Seeking joy and fitness in recreational modern defense.
My blog: "Two rubbers, one racket"
Kill the game against long Pimps with Coach Li!

Currently experimenting with short pips:
VKMO+ Gambler Volt-T + TSP Spectol Blue (1.5)
Joola CWX + Nittaku Hurricane III Pro Turbo Orange + Spinlord Gepard (1.8 )

For blocking loops I think anti can be as good as Frictionless LP, but it's the other strokes that seems a lot harder with most 'frictionless' Anti. For example no-spin shots are hard to control... with LP one could still brush the ball and get some control, with most anti this is harder. For aggressive pushing against backspin, LP always seem to get better reversal, because the contact area of LPs is always much lower compared to smooth anti. This is a generisation of course, but I find that most anti lack in some area, and it's a weakness that's often bigger than weaknesses of frictionless LPs.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

there is little room for getting the angle right, depending on incoming spin, when blocking whilst frictionless pimples are much more forgiving. the block with frictionless antis is also Counter intuitiv as you open the angle more the more incoming spin the loop has. and as mentioned by hagisv: all other strokes are really hard to perform with the anti as the ball tends to slip off the bat

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Blade: Barna Original Triumph Forehand Yasaka Razka Po Backhand Der-Materialspezialist Störkraft 0.8
http://www.instagram.com/dragontattooguy

Hi Everyone,

I haven't got round to any comparisons yet, I have had some other bats to test, however...... one of the bats I was testing the backhand I set up for this review..... I have accidentally come across the most disruptive dangerous bat I have ever used!

Gorilla 0.6mm on the Jackpot blade!!

These two beauties work in perfect harmony, the effect is horrendous combined with the unique sound of the jackpot blade with the Gorilla... mimics the sound of a broken ball
I used a spin ball and found the reversal was as good as my old set up of super block on the Kung Fu blade, there was more wobble with the jackpot and gorilla, add the sound and this combination is brutal!!

I'm not going to even suggest this is the way forward because we all know the drawbacks with the gorilla in 0.6mm as opposed to the newer anties...........
however I will say that the jackpot does compliment the gorilla, due to the ultra low throw from jackpot and the high control it's the easiest I have played the gorilla in 0.6mm, a lot less are going off the end and tend to just dive at the last second, which is also disruptive for the opponent, but again the speed is still like lightning.... this can work in your favour as a fast return disruptive ball is harder for your opponent to return.

Again I don't recommend this as compared to the new anties the added disruption isn't worth loosing the control, but if your good with anties, have some spare lying around or don't mind spending for a bit of fun and of course BRAVE then by all means give this set up a go.

Dark Arts TT

_________________
Dark Arts Table Tennis
The Pips Out Specialists
Professional Pips Out & Anti-Loop Coaching
http://darkartstabletennis.co.uk