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Was the 2001 rule change beneficial for table tennis as a sport?
Initially disliked the changes, still dislike them. 69%  69%  [ 9 ]
Initially disliked the changes, like them now. 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
Initially liked the changes, still like them. 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
Initially liked the changes, no longer like them. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 13
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 Post subject: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 14:41 
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Hi all,
Making a survey for another science project. Do you think the 2001 rule change (scoring, ball, service) was beneficial for the sport? Did you agree with the rule change at first? Has your opinion changed over time? Which changes did you agree or disagree with?
Please indicate in the poll, and discuss your answers here: I'm very interested in all opinions!

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 15:24 
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Nice topic for a project, well done.

For me I played table tennis prior to 2001 and then had a break for many years until I returned around 2010 so I really wasn't aware of the changes until 2010. Equipment changes didn't bother me as I was just using a basic premade bat when I first played and really wasn't very good. By the time I came back, speed glue had been banned but I'm glad I wasn't caught up in that as really I couldn't be bothered with the hassle.

The main thing that had changed for me was the scoring. First to 21 and 5 serves had changed to first to 11 and 2 serves. For me this makes the game far more exciting as each game comes to a climax a lot quicker and you can't really afford a run of lost points. Its evened the game up a little as its easier for a lower player to grab a game off a better player. Even though the match is usually won by the better player, a lower player can still feel like they've got some reward if they get a game. Floggings are also over a bit quicker with matches generally being best of 5 games meaning you need to win 33 points rather than 42 under the old best of 3 system.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 15:42 
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It might be worthwhile to outline the changes, for those that are not aware.
Some may also like 1 of the changes, but not the others... so a poll for just one change might be more useful?

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 15:54 
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I hated the ball change, disliked the scoring change and didn't mind the serving change.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 16:28 
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Due to a major move, I basically stopped playing at the end of 2001, and didn't begin again until a couple years back. So I was aware of the new rules, but wasn't affected by them all that much. The new balls were just starting to appear, I got some of them. I liked it because shots became more consistent overall, rallies were longer and serve returns a LOT easier, but also disliked it because my sure-fire confusing pendulum serve suddenly became a lot less effective. In one way, the new ball made life very unpleasant for a long period of time - it caused huge, bitter, interminable flame wars on Usenet - the current arguments don't even come close.

Can't ever remember playing any 11 point games back then even though the rule had come into effect. Somewhat ambivalent about the 11 point game - come to think of it, everyone was still playing to 21 points where I was playing when I started playing again, too, in the lobby and at Social Doubles... we didn't start using 11 points until about a year ago.. and they're still playing to 21 in the lobby as far as I know.. :lol: :lol: :lol: There are probably millions of people still playing to 21 points (and using the "skunk" rule and all sorts of local variations thereof). One good point about it is if you're playing where there's a queue and "winner stays", the wait is a lot shorter than it used to be.

The rules that I think a lot of people aren't clear about - especially players my vintage, who started playing decades ago - are serve rules. Watch match footage from the 1970s - a lot of those serves would be "illegal" today. This was before the advent of hidden serves - which I missed due to not playing in the early 1990s. You don't see hidden serves any more, but modern serves are very much influenced by the hidden serve era. Much of the swing is still hidden, though the rules state that the contact point cannot be.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 16:59 
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Incidentally, I've been thinking recently about the difference between serve changes in table tennis and in tennis tie-breakers. For those who don't know this, in tennis, once the regular games reach 6-6, they often (but not always - depends on the tournament and which particular set you're talking about) play a "tie-breaker". It's sort of a mini-game to some set number of points (7, 8, 9, again it varies). Serves alternate after every two serves, and you HAVE to win by two points, just like in table tennis. The difference? I table tennis, when you get to deuce (i.e. 10-10), serves alternate EVERY serve, not every two. The reason being that having the serve is a big advantage (as it is in Tennis, even more so). So you don't want someone to have two consecutive services right when the scores are even and two points are needed to win. But in tennis, they continue alternating after every two serves, even at "deuce". Puzzled me at first, and then I realized that, at the beginning of the tie-breaker, the first player to serve serves ONCE. And THEN only do they start alternating after every second serve. So it would be impossible for someone to have two serves in a row when the scores are even - it won't happen. Why didn't they adopt this system in table tennis back when they went to 11 point games? First of all, I think, no one actually thought about it. And then there's tradition - back when the game was 21 points, serves alternated after every five serves, UNTIL deuce (20-20), when serves would alternate after every serve. So it was natural to continue this. Even if someone DID think of doing it the way it's done in tennis tie-breakers, there's no real advantage to doing it that way, anyway.

I actually looked this up on Wikipedia - there's a long history of experimental tournaments with different scoring schemes - one set of tournaments (I think it was in the 1980s) actually used table tennis scoring! (Games to 21, five serves a turn..). Whatever you think of tennis scoring, I must admit, it really keeps the audience at the edge of their seats. This whole thing about service breaks, etc. But I wouldn't like to play that way - it'd take forever.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 18:42 
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haggisv wrote:
It might be worthwhile to outline the changes, for those that are not aware.
Some may also like 1 of the changes, but not the others... so a poll for just one change might be more useful?


Thanks Haggisv, I will clarify:
The poll refers to the changes as a whole.

Mainly focusing on the ball and scoring changes (38mm to 40mm), (21 to 11 point scoring), not so much the service.

For context, the study is on technological advances in tt, badminton, and tennis, including how the sports have adapted to science.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 19:48 
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Musicfreak0 wrote:
For context, the study is on technological advances in tt, badminton, and tennis, including how the sports have adapted to science.

Sorry for being picky :( , but neither the ball size change, nor the change on scoring is really a technological advance though. The change to plastic balls, the change to composite blades, or the inbuilt glue-effect rubbers would be closer to technological change.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 20:34 
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haggisv wrote:
Musicfreak0 wrote:
For context, the study is on technological advances in tt, badminton, and tennis, including how the sports have adapted to science.

Sorry for being picky :( , but neither the ball size change, nor the change on scoring is really a technological advance though. The change to plastic balls, the change to composite blades, or the inbuilt glue-effect rubbers would be closer to technological change.


Perhaps I should have clarified further!
My view was that the rule changes were made to deal with the technological advances. I'm focusing on the blades, rubbers, and poly balls (mainly) as the innovations, but the rules (from my perspective) were partly made in order to prevent table tennis from getting too fast for spectators (as a result of the faster blades & rubbers), so a larger ball was introduced.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 03:36 
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I suppose you could use the term "technical changes" instead... :lol:

I don't know if any of these rules changes had to do with advances in technology per se, unless you could the 1952 introduction of sponge. There was speed gluing, of course, and the advent of hidden serves (which isn't actually technology), which led to a preponderance of very short third-ball-kill rallies, and the perception that the 21 point game was too long and boring.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 08:46 
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Musicfreak0 wrote:
Perhaps I should have clarified further!
My view was that the rule changes were made to deal with the technological advances. I'm focusing on the blades, rubbers, and poly balls (mainly) as the innovations, but the rules (from my perspective) were partly made in order to prevent table tennis from getting too fast for spectators (as a result of the faster blades & rubbers), so a larger ball was introduced.

Yes that's a fair point! :up:

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2017, 22:09 
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But what about Table technology change ? :lol: if they make more and more frictionless tables like those DHS and Donic glass-surface tables ... won't that also affect how the game is played even more ?

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 01:53 
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Really??? Can't say I've noticed..

The busiest tables on campus were in the basement of a grad student dorm, since it was open 24 hours and there was reasonable space. Lots of foreign grad students who played, too, and a lot of the older married ones would congregate there on the weekends. Most of the serious players would end up there sooner or later.. and those tables were atrocious - one slab of plywood on sawhorses, painted green. They lasted decades, anything else would have broken after maybe 10 years. Inconsistent bounce, bad spots where someone had spilt a soft drink.. No idea where they came from or who made them, they were probably made in the 1950s or 60s, I wouldn't be surprised. And I wouldn't be surprised if they were still there 20 years after I saw them last. Thing is, if you've ever played on tables like that you then appreciate "real" tables all the more, regardless of their shortcomings.

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2017, 12:28 
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I don't know if there are enough votes to draw any meaningful conclusions, but it seems that no-one has changed their minds from their initial like or dislike of the changes. :o

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 Post subject: Re: 2001 Rule Changes
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2017, 10:15 
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The poll doesn't suit me because I feel differently about each one. I don't mind the new ball (even the latest one) but I've been out of the game for a long while so I didn't have to play competitively through the changes. Not a fan of the scoring system. I feel rushed and pressured to win the point quickly because I sense that it's harder to come back and win from behind. Probably all in the mind. I'm sure I'll adapt.

What was the service change?

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