OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I had an interesting conversation with one of our club members, see what you guys think.
In our main competition, we play clubs against clubs for every grade, so each club nominates 1 or more teams for each grade in the competition. Because our club has a large number of members, in some grades we have more than 1 team.
As we come to the final round, in some grades two teams from the same club play against each other to decide who gets into the finals (top 4 out of 8 ).
This was the case in one grade, where one team1 was already in the finals and position no longer mattered, played team2 (from the same club) who had to win to get into the finals. Team1 is considerably stronger, and team2 is not really a threat, in fact team1 would much rather play team2 in finals instead of any of the other teams.
If you were in team 1, would you let team2 win this final round, to guarantee that both teams from your club would make the finals. Or would you play to win as usual, so that the strongest teams make the finals, no matter what clubs they're from?
It's an interesting dilemma.. letting team2 win is strategic as was as showing loyalty to the club, while ethically team1 should just play to win as usual.
If you were team1, what would you do?

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Kick their butt!

Can't believe this is even a question. You should be always encouraging every player to play their best. Maybe I'm selfish but I'd never give up ratings points for another team.

It'll come back to bite you one day when something similar happens.

Is this what we want happening in sport?

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/carew-cr ... 2017-08-29

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

At a recent local association committee meeting it was stated that one of the aims with draws is to ensure that teams from the same club meet earlier in the round rather than later so that the effect of this ethical dilemma is a bit less, in that no team at that stage would be totally assured of making the finals.

At our recent Top 5 tournaments for each division (and I can speak directly to division 2) which is a round robin between the top 5 players from the pennant competition just completed, players from the same club had to play first. For Div 2 there were myself and AF from our club, and there were 2 others from a different club, so that was who played first.

I believe that at a recent Olympics or World Championships in Badminton the make up of the final or semifinal was predetermined on the result of a particular match which neither participant wanted to win. If they lost they were still in there playing a different opponent. Questions of sportsmanship and tanking were raised.

Having said that, I will always play to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, there are players, known in the vernacular as "trophyhunters" who see no ethical problem whatsoever. There are rules about playing to win, however we all have off days, bad match ups etc, so it is very difficult to enforce.

The US has problems with "sandbaggers" who artificially deflate their US rating points by losing a few matches in small tournaments in order to win U<whatever> at their nationals or other bigger tournaments.

With large parts of Australian TT moving to Ratings Central ratings, I wonder whether the same thing will happen here.

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Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

I've heard of this happening already. In my mind if I were just above 1,000 I'd drop a match to get in the lower bracket. In reality I'm too competitive to even drop a single match to someone I can beat.

It's going to be a real test for me over the next month or so in that I'm supposed to be practicing certain things in matches with a view to the long term and not be afraid to lose a match by looping more and serving short rather than serving for free points. Maybe that's also a form of tanking.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

The ethical aspect is clear: play to win.

Will it really happen? Hard to keep peop,e from strategizing when this kind of thing comes up. But as to sporting ethics there is no question.

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2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Practice matches are just a form of practice. Keep that in mind.

But don't pra tice in real matches either. Tournaments or leagues.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Sorry for hijacking thread.

Its not so much practicing in a match, it more playing like playing the style I should be playing if I want to get better, rather than doing what I need to do to win the match.

Ok.....back to topic now.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

We had a variation on this last season. My club has three teams in the top local league, and has had for as long as I have been around. By the end of the season, with one match to go, the strongest of the three teams was in 2nd place, but couldn't win, and also wouldn't drop to third if they lost. The third team was second-bottom. A win would pretty much guarantee staying up. A loss would pretty-much guarantee being relegated. The last match of the season was team 3 vs team 1.

There was much talk going around, expecting team 1 to field a weak side, maybe not play very well, to ensure the survival of the third team.

On match night, team 1 fielded their strongest side, and smashed team 3 10-0. No question - always field the strongest team, and always play to win.

The karmic outcome is pleasing. We have a slightly complicated division structure based on 'tariff points', which means that it's not always exactly clear until the last minute what the make-up of the divisions will be. It's usually the case that two go up and two go down, but not always. On this occasion, fortune smiled on team 3, who have stayed in the top division.

And, in very pleasing news, this is the team I signed for over the summer, so I will be playing top-flight TT this season

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In one situation, semi-finals was played between 2 different teams and 2 same-teams.

Due to the way the match happened, 2 different teams played and tired each other out. The 2 same-teams gave "walk-over" to the stronger team to enter the finals.

Unfortunately the organizer is very dishonest. So this behaviour was not discouraged ( becos the same-team owners sponsor the event a LOT ) and obviously they ended up winning easily since the other finalist team had played more matches and had to play immediately in the finals.

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Some food for thought:
Say you choose to hold back a little, or use some technique you know you don't quite master, consciously and willingly playing in a manner that reduces your chance of winning.

You are the only person who knows what motivates you (or "makes you allow yourself") to do this. Is the main purpose to increase the other side's chances, to improve your own chances farther down the line, or is it long term motivation to improve your own skills?

Other players who know you, will notice that you are not playing your best. The message you will be sending out to them is "I think it is OK to bend the rules a little, to the best for myself and/or my teammates." For your motivation they can only guess: Are you just being friendly to your club mates? Tactical? Money or other benefits involved? Your honesty - can you be trusted at all?

Perhaps you think this is a bit over the top, but everything we do sends signals to the world about who and what we are. Tiny actions add up.

When we lose to someone we shouldn't, by accident, we can usually find a way to justify it in our mind. But losing on purpose is hard on the conscience. Although I did lose a match on purpose in the last school holidays...to my daughter.

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If the outcome of the match is not important to me, I may well play with a little more abandon than normal. This may lead to me losing more points, but may also lead to me winning more points. The truth is that I will play differently, even though I may have no intention of being easier to beat. The circumstances dictate this. (On the other hand, most of the time, the opposing team does not need my help in order to beat me ).

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Play to win.

The players in the lower team are usually all looking at your place and thinking "that should be me". I'm not going to give them any evidence to suggest they are right by "letting them win".

When you step up to play in a competition match the person on the other end of the table is typically there to beat you otherwise they wouldn't be playing competition. Doesn't matter if they are 20 or 100yrs old, tall or thin, overweight or a lean mean fighting machine. Show your opponent, yourself and the competition you are taking part in respect and play to win.

And of course the other thing to consider is if you let you clubmates into the finals when they haven't really earned it, it may mean they won't be pushed to fight harder next season to make it on their own.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.