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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 01:17 
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Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
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Now that I'm toying with attacking more, I am struggling with specific serves that I don't recall having trouble with before I used LPs when I played Jpen. With inverted rubber, I understand how to return serves with inverted, ei matching angle of bat to angle of serve, aiming to opposite side of spin to account for angle, etc. Assume Right handed vs. right handed.

Scenario1: ball comes to my short BH with side-spin.
Opponent serves a standard pendulum, so the ball is spinning from my right to my left (sever's left to sever's right). Assume this is not pure side-spin because otherwise I'd topspin it.
Normally I would match the angle if I want to push it. Question, how should I hold my bat to match the angle? It's awkward on my short backhand as I'd have to angle it toward my body. The angle on the wrist is supper awkward. Other option is to step around and use FH (less awkward angle) but that puts me out of position.

Scenario 2: side to the short forehand.
Same question for opposite spin (My left to my right) but to the short forehand. This one is less awkward, but if there is a lot of spin I have to really contort the wrist.

Additionally, is there a motion I should do to avoid so much spin? On the FH this is less an issue because I'll be playing with SPs on the FH. I understand the concept of a lose grip to absorb some of the spin. Lately what I've been doing is not matching the angle quite so much but moving my bat in the direction of the spin at contact to reduce the sharpness of the angle of the return. This has worked a bit, but I'm not practiced on it.

Any tips are much appreciated

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 02:52 
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There is rarely such a thing as a side spin serve. Usually it's a side-top or a side-under. For short serves, most people tend to serve side with some underspin. The easiest thing to do (LP or inverted) is to compensate for the heavy side by not aiming back cross court. So if they serve BH to BH, you aim/push to their FH. You don't have to worry about the side spin much. Just push it back lightly. Similarly, long side spin serves you need to loop without any hesitation. They aren't meant to be pushed back -- gotta loop them.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 03:02 
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I apologize if what I'm about to say seems sort of obvious (and rude), but in terms of awkwardness to your short BH, you have to move around, get to position. If you're matching the angle, then you're doing the right thing. I guess receiving the serve comes with more experience; your touch improves. Also, the loose grip concept you've been using is something I've been doing to. It really helps with serve receive and pushing heavy backspin.

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 11:45 
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notfound123 wrote:
There is rarely such a thing as a side spin serve. Usually it's a side-top or a side-under. For short serves, most people tend to serve side with some underspin. The easiest thing to do (LP or inverted) is to compensate for the heavy side by not aiming back cross court. So if they serve BH to BH, you aim/push to their FH. You don't have to worry about the side spin much. Just push it back lightly. Similarly, long side spin serves you need to loop without any hesitation. They aren't meant to be pushed back -- gotta loop them.


I sense confusion by your responses.

I am aware there is no such thing as pure sidespin. If you re-read my post I mention to assume it is not, otherwise I’d top spin it. But when they are short (remember this is for short only) it is awkward to contort my wrist to match the angle necessary.

I am aiming to the forehand, but doing so requires a very severe angle which is awkward.

My practice partner has a very short mostly sidespin serve that is very tough to flip. Even the 2000+ guys struggle with it sometimes.


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Last edited by Japsican on 09 Dec 2017, 12:12, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 11:49 
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Danthespearton HQ wrote:
I apologize if what I'm about to say seems sort of obvious (and rude), but in terms of awkwardness to your short BH, you have to move around, get to position. If you're matching the angle, then you're doing the right thing. I guess receiving the serve comes with more experience; your touch improves. Also, the loose grip concept you've been using is something I've been doing to. It really helps with serve receive and pushing heavy backspin.


Again, assume I’m in position to make the receive. I understand matching the angle is the right thing. I’m speaking explicitly that on short returns, with the specific spin I indicated, to counteract the sidespin, Requires a very contorted wrist.

Re-read the description of the spin and tell me how you would return that with your inverted. Describe to me how you are holding your bat. Even snap a pic to see if you understand what I’m saying.


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Last edited by Japsican on 09 Dec 2017, 12:13, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 11:54 
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Achieving the necessary angle with jpen was not an issue as you can just point the tip toward the opponent and rotate the face of the blade left or right. Far less contortion.


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 01:35 
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Tee hee! :lol:

The reason why you're having trouble with my short serve to your wide BH is because I have 4 variations, all with similar motions, that make it not that easy to return. Heavy side, heavy side/under, heavy side/top, and no/light spin. Every once in a while, you 'guess' right or the serve is not tight enough and you punish me for it. So the key is to really pay attention to the ball/racket at the moment of contact, watch for the label on the ball, and watch how the ball bounces.

In general, if I see an opponent having trouble with one variation, I will continue using that variation until it no longer works. And that's when the fun begins. :rofl:


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 01:34 
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No. I’m talking about when I know the spin. When we drilled it. I Am not sure of the proper technique to return it with inverted. Assume I know the spin. How should I hold my bat? The angle is severe.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 02:34 
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I think there are 3 ways to return that serve, 2 using the BH, 1 using the FH. Whichever way you choose, the angle should be the same and mirror the serve. The BH techniques differ by whether you're leading your stroke with your wrist or with the tip of your racket. If you lead with your wrist, the tip of your racket is towards your body but more open/closed to your left depending on the amount of underspin. If you lead with the tip of your racket it needs to be more open/closed to your right depending on the amount of underspin. With the FH technique, the angles are similar to the BH wrist technique. If you're going to be at the club today, we can work on it.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 01:18 
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GMan4911 wrote:
I think there are 3 ways to return that serve, 2 using the BH, 1 using the FH. Whichever way you choose, the angle should be the same and mirror the serve. The BH techniques differ by whether you're leading your stroke with your wrist or with the tip of your racket. If you lead with your wrist, the tip of your racket is towards your body but more open/closed to your left depending on the amount of underspin. If you lead with the tip of your racket it needs to be more open/closed to your right depending on the amount of underspin. With the FH technique, the angles are similar to the BH wrist technique. If you're going to be at the club today, we can work on it.

Hmm... after doing controlled drills of this yesterday, it's less bothersome to me.

At the teams, Tuan did this several times when I happend to twiddle, as did the chopper and the short pips hitter. With them I felt the spin was more severe and the angle was far more difficult to manage than what we did yesterday. Honestly, I did not do much different...

Only difference i could see was the pace. Tuan and the SP hitter had faster versions of what you gave me...

I'll have to monitor this more.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 02:50 
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More spin and pace? Ok, I'll try to put more spin and pace on it. :)


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 04:40 
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Ha, you can try. There's were not placed as well though.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 05:05 
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If you read a serve correctly then with practice you can do anything to it though that is not a guarantee that what you do will not be attacked.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 05:12 
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Good point, and as a chopper that's not necessarily bad for me, but now it is when playing close to the table (or trying) as an attacker.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 08:40 
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I know that you've mostly sorted it out.
I just thought I'd comment anyway.

The top player at my club ( I'm like 4-5th) uses a very heavy amount of spin and uses the serve that a lot, that you mentioned.

I find it very difficult to answer this serve with my BH and cheat over to return most with my FH.
He notices this and puts some serves down the line, but overall it's a better strategy for me to try to return with my FH.
The FH receive of this spin just naturally matches the place on the ball in an easier manner than the BH.

But since I noticed that all I can do is touch his returns, I've decided to start working on using my BH to return his serves. That isn't going very well at the moment, but I realize that I just need a few hundred/thousand of his serves to sort it out. Then I'll have options.

I suspect it would be the same for you.

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