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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 05:00 
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Kim Is My Shadow
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When playing I generally concentrate on what spin is on the ball, it's depth and height and then on hitting that ball with a certain type and amount of spin and pace.

If I'm serving I focus on direction, length, speed, spin and disguise.

If I'm returning, I'm focusing on my opponents spin, length and speed of the serve and if I've got that right I can get the ball back - control of direction is dependent on that.

If I'm playing a slow/medium speed shot I'll add placement of return in to the above factors

The one factor which is often missing when I'm playing an aggressive attacking shot though is a focus on ball placement. If I'm playing a fast attacking shot, I find it really hard to include ball placement - it tends to be a natural outcome from my technique rather than the determining factor. Maybe that's why the ball often goes back in the direction it's come from which can make my play predictable unless I really focus hard - not a strong point in games for me alas.

Obviously in a game there is little time to consider every one of these aspects - spin, speed, depth, direction, height (variations of these). What are you thinking about in order of importance for you when

1. serving
2. returning serve
3. pushing
4. blocking
5. top spin driving
and if you do it
6. chopping
7. lobbing


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 07:40 
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Debater wrote:
1. serving
2. returning serve
3. pushing
4. blocking
5. top spin driving
and if you do it
6. chopping
7. lobbing


1. I've decided on a serve and what I expect the return to be. I'm thinking about my feet/legs so I can be ready for the 3rd ball. I guess I don't really think about the serve quality itself - that's all been done in practice.
2. First focus on the standing position of the opponent so I can adjust for any angles created. Then focused on the ball and the contact made. From there "How can I loop it?" is the only thing I'm thinking.
3. Not much thinking done with pushing. I may sometimes push deep and wide with the intent to pivot. Very much like a serve.
4. Just reacting. After I might think about adjustments but rarely any time to think during.
5. Sometimes I will look at the opponent and see where they are and if I have enough time wait for a reaction so I can put it where they aren't.
6+7. How did I get into this crap position?


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 07:49 
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Great answers wilkinru, thank you.

1. At coaching last night I asked some people who were practising serving what they were expecting the return to be. Most hadn't considered that, they were focused only on putting spin on the ball and the general direction they would serve in not " what I expect the return to be".
"2. First focus on the standing position of the opponent so I can adjust for any angles created." I really like this observation you have made. I am trying to help a very promising young player. Because she practises "drills" a lot and the mental/tactical side of the game very little, she always stands in the same place at the same angle to return serve, irrespective of where the server is. It's what she is used to doing. Any change of angle from her opponent and she is automatically at a disadvantage and taken out of her comfort zone.
6&7 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 10:10 
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1. serving - I focus a lot on serve variation. I generate very little spin (even after years of trying) and my disguise is minimal. By varying my serve I'm hoping to keep my opponent unsettled. I do try to focus on where I want the ball returned. I'm backhand dominant so I try to serve to set that up.
2. returning serve - reading spin. I have difficulty with side spin, so I'm focussing on my bat angle and shot selection.
3. pushing - depth. As short as possible
4. blocking - pin and switch
5. top spin driving - I need to focus more on giving myself more room. Too often I get caught close to the table.
6. chopping - depth and height. I want the ball as deep on my opponent's side as possible.
7. lobbing - depth. I first fell in love with lobbing watching Michael Maze drop his lobs in the last five centimetres. I also try to focus on enjoying myself.

Debater wrote:
The one factor which is often missing when I'm playing an aggressive attacking shot though is a focus on ball placement. If I'm playing a fast attacking shot, I find it really hard to include ball placement - it tends to be a natural outcome from my technique rather than the determining factor. Maybe that's why the ball often goes back in the direction it's come from which can make my play predictable unless I really focus hard - not a strong point in games for me alas.

I remember reading that 80% of shots go back where they came from. I suspect that may be a little inflated but even so I think that in driving/looping rallies most of the time there's little variation in direction. Watching Harimoto play Fan it was obvious how often Harimoto caught Fan by taking a shot from Fan's backhand corner and returning it straight down the line. And when Miu Hirano blitzed the Chinese, she often played strong backhands across caught from balls played from her opponent's forehand side.


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 10:23 
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Debater wrote:
When playing I generally concentrate on what spin is on the ball, it's depth and height and then on hitting that ball with a certain type and amount of spin and pace.

If I'm serving I focus on direction, length, speed, spin and disguise.

If I'm returning, I'm focusing on my opponents spin, length and speed of the serve and if I've got that right I can get the ball back - control of direction is dependent on that.

If I'm playing a slow/medium speed shot I'll add placement of return in to the above factors

The one factor which is often missing when I'm playing an aggressive attacking shot though is a focus on ball placement. If I'm playing a fast attacking shot, I find it really hard to include ball placement - it tends to be a natural outcome from my technique rather than the determining factor. Maybe that's why the ball often goes back in the direction it's come from which can make my play predictable unless I really focus hard - not a strong point in games for me alas.

Obviously in a game there is little time to consider every one of these aspects - spin, speed, depth, direction, height (variations of these). What are you thinking about in order of importance for you when

1. serving
2. returning serve
3. pushing
4. blocking
5. top spin driving
and if you do it
6. chopping
7. lobbing



1 - For serving my biggest focus of late has been on consistency in spin replication, partnered with thinking of the 3rd ball attack as an extension of the serve itself. My second focus is on deception as I'm currently really looking to be able to serve multiple spins from a similar stance and look, as to not make it easy to narrow in on a return.

2 - My biggest concern in returning is the incoming depth of the ball, followed by spin - with a particular emphasis on side spin as I like to try to drop my short receives to the far side of service location, near the net. For deeper serves, all I really focus on is making sure I get the ball at the right height to not make a simple 3rd ball smash for my opponent (of course, that's the theory more so than the practice, haha.)

3 - I try to place my pushes to my opponents weaker side. I have a lot of personal directional control off on my anti. After direction again comes depth, mostly aiming for deeper pushes in an attempt to get a loop back where I'd like it.

4 - Oh no, oh no, oh no. My blocks are almost always an involuntary reaction shot right now, definitely not a strength! So maybe I'm thinking immediately about resetting my feet and preparing to flail for the next ball.

5 - Power is my biggest concern, because right now this is a very rare shot for me and I'm only using it when I think I've got a really good chance of not having to hit another shot. Power and then placement, then recovery footwork.

6 - Height of ball, foot placement and weight distribution, chop angle, depth. And sometimes a health does of 'Oh no, oh no, oh no' here as well if it's more of a desperation chop.

7 - Table location, side spin, why am I not chopping, why didn't I send that ball higher, get centered to the ball.


I think that's the just of it right now, probably.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 11:55 
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You guys are obviously much more 'thoughtful' players than me ;).

Every time I tried to think during the shot about any aspect of it, I pretty much screwed it up, so I am mostly relying on my instincts during the point. If I'm lucky, I have few thoughts between points.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 12:11 
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1. First thought is low, then short, unless it's an intentional long fast serve, which is normally about 20% unless someone shows a weakness. Contact/spin is next and if I have any brainpower left, placement. Placement should be higher, but I struggle with low and short, and placement doesn't help so much if a serve is high and drifts long.

2. Depth, then spin, then placement. Placement thoughts are often framed negatively, as in Don't put it back to his forehand again!

3. I often think, Why the Hell am I pushing this ball? Sometimes this is followed by, How can I miss when all I was doing was pushing?! Idiot, if you are going to miss, miss an attack, not a lousy push.

4. At best no thought at all, just react. Next best, placement. If I think about blocking it is either an attempted Amy Wang-style backhand punchblock, which is good. Or I am trying to consciously adjust a passive block for the spin, and will fail if the loop is heavy enough. I have started counterlooping some.on the firehand in much the same way I started trying to flick every short ball because my short pushes are short,.high, and have no spin. If I can't do the defensive skill, I have nothing to lose by missing an attack.

5. Placement first, spin second, speed not much at all.

6 & 7. If I am more than four or five feet away from the table all I am thinking is, How did I end up back here? I can't play from here.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 13:01 
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Debater wrote:
When playing I generally concentrate on what spin is on the ball, it's depth and height and then on hitting that ball with a certain type and amount of spin and pace.

If I'm serving I focus on direction, length, speed, spin and disguise.

If I'm returning, I'm focusing on my opponents spin, length and speed of the serve and if I've got that right I can get the ball back - control of direction is dependent on that.

If I'm playing a slow/medium speed shot I'll add placement of return in to the above factors

The one factor which is often missing when I'm playing an aggressive attacking shot though is a focus on ball placement. If I'm playing a fast attacking shot, I find it really hard to include ball placement - it tends to be a natural outcome from my technique rather than the determining factor. Maybe that's why the ball often goes back in the direction it's come from which can make my play predictable unless I really focus hard - not a strong point in games for me alas.

Obviously in a game there is little time to consider every one of these aspects - spin, speed, depth, direction, height (variations of these). What are you thinking about in order of importance for you when

1. serving
2. returning serve
3. pushing
4. blocking
5. top spin driving
and if you do it
6. chopping
7. lobbing


Thanks. This is a topic I've wondered about. My thoughts are kinda similar to yours, especially the missing placement factor when playing aggressive shots. Can't agree more with "it tends to be a natural outcome from my technique rather than the determining factor". And someone mentioned 80% of the time the ball goes where it comes from - I find that very interesting and somewhat reassuring, and seems to agree with my observations watching pro matches.

1. serving
I focus on strong spin, disguise (not always good at), and direction. I'm not great at depth/height since focusing on those tends to diminish my spin.

I've tried to think about 3rd ball before, but haven't been able to get my opponents to return a certain way. Usually I rely on them missing the return outright. One exception may be a fast serve with topspin where they send it back same direction.

2. returning serve
If it's serves I'm familiar with, I focus on how I can attack them with what shot. I tend to have a shot in mind before they serve.
If not, then focus on reading the spin and just putting it back low. The other factors are easier to figure out.

3. pushing
I feel I'm most confident of this shot. I try to put as much spin and as low as possible. I change the direction often since it's a slower shot, and have a bit of basic "game plan" e.g. first push short to FH, then long to BH.

4. blocking
This is just instinct with TPB. Bat angle. Sometimes adding force as an attack. I don't think about placement enough tho...

5. top spin driving
Mainly getting in the right spot and hitting the ball with power. Spin is also considered if slower ball. Sometimes placement is a last-second random decision if I have time.

and if you do it
6. chopping
Rare

7. lobbing
Depth and height for sure. Weird spin if practicing :lol:

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 13:59 
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When I am playing a match I try to get into 'the zone' and do very little thinking. Virtually all of my thinking should have been done on the practice table and my reactions to all situations should be automatic. I will however be aware of certain tactical factors (my opponents strengths, weaknesses, and tactics).


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 15:17 
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I'm finding that I'm really starting to take notice of where my opposition is on the table and place my shot accordingly.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 15:28 
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carbonman wrote:
When I am playing a match I try to get into 'the zone' and do very little thinking. Virtually all of my thinking should have been done on the practice table and my reactions to all situations should be automatic. I will however be aware of certain tactical factors (my opponents strengths, weaknesses, and tactics).

What do you focus on when practising these shots?


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 17:25 
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In the beginning my practice was heavily focussed on getting my technique correct and uniform. As such, I would be keenly aware of the various elements - feet position, where stroke starts and finishes, weight transference, torso rotation, contact point, etc. I used to spend a lot of time practicing serve and here I would first try to get a lot of spin, then I would work on control, then deception.

Although I dont need to focus on technique as much now (however my backhand will always be a work in progress) there are always new developments to look at (I doubt if I will ever have a decent banana flick :( ). These days most of my practice centres around maintaining or recapturing form, touch and speed. Thus, I will do a lot of falkenbergy type stuff and also transition exercises such as moving from a short flick to a bh counter etc. My thoughts or focus will usually revolve pushing myself to recover faster and to be faster overall.

In my experience elements such as placement and spin-reading become automatic after a while, something akin to driving a car.


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 19:44 
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Debater wrote:
When playing I generally concentrate on what spin is on the ball, it's depth and height and then on hitting that ball with a certain type and amount of spin and pace.

If I'm serving I focus on direction, length, speed, spin and disguise.

If I'm returning, I'm focusing on my opponents spin, length and speed of the serve and if I've got that right I can get the ball back - control of direction is dependent on that.

If I'm playing a slow/medium speed shot I'll add placement of return in to the above factors

The one factor which is often missing when I'm playing an aggressive attacking shot though is a focus on ball placement. If I'm playing a fast attacking shot, I find it really hard to include ball placement - it tends to be a natural outcome from my technique rather than the determining factor. Maybe that's why the ball often goes back in the direction it's come from which can make my play predictable unless I really focus hard - not a strong point in games for me alas.

Obviously in a game there is little time to consider every one of these aspects - spin, speed, depth, direction, height (variations of these). What are you thinking about in order of importance for you when

1. serving
2. returning serve
3. pushing
4. blocking
5. top spin driving
and if you do it
6. chopping
7. lobbing


Regardless of strokes, what is in my mind mostly monologues.

"Let see if You can hit it."
"You have fallen into trap, Silly." :P
"Steady, one, two, now, SMASH!"
"Oh no, You don't!"
"I can catch it, :P."
"How You do that?" o_o
"If I serve there while looking at that, how would You react?"

And more things like that. ;-)

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 20:04 
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1. serving - Length and placement first then decide the spin.
2. returning serve - I think mostly about my position - where to stay so I can place the return where I want (considering that most of the serves are long to my pips but being ready for short serves).
3. pushing - short/long, high spin/low spin (depends on the opponent)
4. blocking - do I need a fast block or a slow block(so speed first) and where to place it
5. top spin driving - firstly I decide where to place the ball and with what speed then the spin(if I can, cause sometimes the speed is decided by the difficulty of the ball )
6. chopping - firstly - to which side to chop (FH/BH/Middle), then if I have the time and can control the ball well enough - how long.
7. lobbing - don't do it often, but mostly think about placing it to somewhere where the opponent is not present :) Quite often I can see if the opponent is more comfortable when the ball bounces away from him or into him. When I see that - I decide the spin on my lobs.

I would say that most of the time speed, placement and spin come together as a decision. Cause I may be sure that I want to play a long slow no-spin loop(fake) to the opponent's BH side and in this case if I change any of the variables then that won't be what I want. There's no 1st,2nd,3d in this situation - it's a selected shot. Placement is a part of the shot for me. You can't hit a very spinny fast loop. If you take only these two parameters into consideration then your strategy will suffer. It'll mean(for me) that you're not really thinking or playing a match right now(no tactical picture or relying on luck).
I would say that I think about some shots in a more separate way only when I'm facing a real problem. For example: I have problems with my opponent's long serve to my pips. (let's say I can't read it). Then I try to think only about placing the ball on a specific part of the table with my receive. Doesn't matter if I make it slow or with no spin. Firstly - return it there. After figuring this serve and returning it this way a couple of times I can decide to add the speed parameter to my thinking and see what happens then.. And after that comes the spin. But most of the times I found those 3 things inseparable when playing different shots.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 20:42 
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1. Serving:

I do a lot of my thinking here. Type of spin is the first thing and it has to do with whether it is my first serve or second. If it is first then it depends on what has worked or not worked so far and I try to adjust accordingly. If it is my second then I try to vary it or use something that has worked, again depending on how confident I am that it will work again. Often my second serve is different with the same action to try and fool the other player. Placement usually follows a similar thought process. Last but not least I am always thinking about third ball attack or 5th ball attack unless it goes into a pushing rally which also works for me because that is where I do a lot of thinking as well.

2. Returning serve:

This is not a bit thinking area for me. If it is long, I will always try to loop it, backhand or forehand. If it is short I will try to return it with as much backspin as I can muster. I will even bring placement into the mix if the serve is not very spinny. But obviously there is less time to think here than when serving since I have to react soon as the serve is made from the other side. The underlying thought is always to read incoming serve and make sure I am in the right place to cover both wings and am ready.

3. Pushing:

One of my favorite aspects of the game I love it when an opponent resorts to this. It is like playing to my strengths. I can do this all day and I am very good with placement, with length and backspin or nospin pushes. As I work on this, the underlying thought is to look for the first chance to attack.

4. Blocking:

I try to to but am not always great with keeping placement in mind when I am blocking.

5. Topspin drives:

I do them but I try not to get into a counterlooping rally. I honestly don't think a lot when I do this. I do however try to slow it down the first chance I get and toss in a defensive chop unless I get a kill chance before I do that. I am not great at counterlooping. I am good at topspin drives but mostly on shots that are not loaded with topspin. So

6. Chopping:
I started out as a defensive chooper so I will chop on both wings if needed. The thought is to always put maximum backspin on the ball and I do think about placement as well or even do some silly spin if I am well ahead.

Lobbing:

In this I am mostly thinking about my one position and readiness. After that I think about making sure it lands on the table. After the first couple of lobs I start to think about varying the spin on my lobs but placement is never one of my thoughts. But mostly my thoughts are around height.

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