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 Post subject: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 19:08 
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This was in the newspaper this morning. It's syndicated by AFP so it's probably in a lot of local papers.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/spo ... 95558.html

When table tennis finally makes the sport pages this is what we get... :lol: What's the truth? Does EVERYONE who uses Hurricane "dope" their bats, as I've seen people claim? Is Ma Long being disingenuous? Who knows... :lol: All I know is there's no way to test for it. And if there WERE a way to test for it, people would either (a) stop using Hurricane and switch to something faster or (b) DHS will start selling "factory-doped" Hurricane or (c) someone would develop some other form of "bat doping" that would be undetectable. In the end, the status quo will be maintained and the playing field will be more or less what it is now.. which is level.. because I can't think of any reason why "doping" Hurricane causes any sort of disadvantage to anyone, since there's other "factory-doped" sheets (like Tenergy 05) out there already anyway. It will just become somewhat more expensive for the average joe (but not more expensive for those who are already buying "National Versions" :lol: ).

It would be better if they just allowed "bat doping". (Problem is - how do you allow it and NOT allow, say, anti-fying Tenergy?)

(I expect Igor to weigh in here with his nano-layers and chemical sniffers... :lol: )

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 19:29 
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I'll copy and paste the text here in case that link evaporates. Copyright AFP 14th April 2016.

Quote:

Table tennis: China's Ma brushes off 'bat doping' claim

China's world number one Ma Long has played down claims that top table tennis players are illegally doctoring their bats, saying all paddles are checked before matches.



HONG KONG: China's world number one Ma Long has played down claims that top table tennis players are illegally doctoring their bats, saying all paddles are checked before matches.

The 27-year-old, one of the Chinese stars playing this week's Asian Olympic qualifiers in Hong Kong, dismissed the idea that players were "doping" their bats with special chemicals.

"I don't think this happens because before the start of each match there are umpires checking every bat," the reigning world champion told AFP through a translator.

Germany's former world number one Timo Boll has claimed about 80 percent of international players are doctoring their bats' rubber surfaces to increase the acceleration of the ball, or "catapult effect".

So-called "speed glue", which make the ball travel faster and spin more off the bat, was banned by the International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF) in 2008.

"The rubbers are treated with chemicals to increase the catapult effect when hitting," Boll was quoted as saying by a German newspaper earlier this year.

"This applies not only for the Chinese players, but for Europeans and other Asians too."

ITTF president Thomas Weikert has reportedly conceded it's hard to detect speed glue, as the testing process is costly and involves removing rubber from the bats.

"The fact is, at the moment, there is no testing method to detect (Boll's allegations)," he said last month, according to Singapore's Straits Times.

"An example of how difficult it is - you need a lot of money and of course the players have to tear off their rubber."

Ma, who wasn't selected for singles at the 2012 Olympics, beat London gold-medallist Zhang Jike on Thursday to reach the final of the qualifying event.

"It's obviously every athlete's dream to win an Olympic medal but I haven't had the chance to play yet," he said.

- AFP/ec


Here's another article I found, it was printed in Singapore's Straits Times on March 2nd. This was around the time of the WTTC when there was actually table tennis coverage in the local papers.

http://www.straitstimes.com/sport/no-te ... ittf-chief

Quote:
No testing method for bat 'doping' currently, clarifies ITTF chief


Chua Siang Yee

Days after quashing fellow German Timo Boll's claim that most players are using illegal material on their bats, International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF) chief Thomas Weikert said yesterday that he was misquoted.

Boll, a two-time World Cup winner who played in China for several years, had told German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine that 80 per cent of players treat the rubber on their bats with chemicals to give their shots a catapult effect.

Speaking at a press conference to announce major outcomes of the ITTF's annual general meeting, Weikert - who became president in 2014 - said: "Sometimes there are false comments in the newspapers.

"The fact is, at the moment, there is no testing method to detect (Boll's allegations). An example of how difficult it is - you need a lot of money and of course the players have to tear off their rubber."

Weikert said he has received various proposals since, including a bounce test from Japan, and a test from a German professor.

He added: "If you do not have a method that is cheap or (practical), then you have to do other things."

The ITTF chief said he will meet bat manufacturers this week to get feedback on this issue. Adding that the goal was to ensure a level playing field, he suggested the ITTF could even tweak its rules such that everyone has the same advantage.

At the press conference, it was confirmed that Hungary will host the 2019 World Championships.

Weikert also told The Straits Times that Singapore had submitted an unsuccessful bid to host a Super Series event last year, but said he expects the Republic to bid again for a 2017 tournament.

With the World Team Championship possibly facing a reduction of teams, he said Singapore could host the premier tournament one day.

"Why not? I saw some venues which are possible and maybe we have a structure with less teams, it's possible," said Weikert.

- Straits Times (of Singapore), 2nd March 2016



Of course, we know all this stuff already... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 20:50 
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Bat doping is a rediculous name, and makes it sound much worse than it is. They should just use the term 'modifications'.
Let not forget that the ITTF allowed 'doping' (speed glue) for several decades!

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 21:25 
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Well, it's non-tabletennis newspapers, what do you expect? :lol: (I'm curious what the London tabloids might call it, if you can get them to look away from the juicier scandals out there for a moment..)

Doping is all the rage in sports news right now, what with the Sharapova situation, and a whole slew of Russians getting pulled from teams of various sports. So of course "bat doping" would be the "in" term, it sounds more.. sinister. It was quite amusing when I did a web search for "bat doping", though... apart from the couple of appropriate hits there were all sorts of articles about bat guano and such. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 21:34 
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I can just picture a syringe stuck in the side of a sponge :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 22:17 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
I can just picture a syringe stuck in the side of a sponge :lol:


I like the way you think and would like to subscribe to your newsletter :)

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 23:26 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
I can just picture a syringe stuck in the side of a sponge :lol:

ROFL! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 00:04 
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Hang on when the glue attracts to the sponge vocs and chemicals are produced anyways. So if you abide the ITTF rules you are still caught out 'bat doping' even with free voc glue. You would need the rubber to be on your bat for a least a week or two for the vocs to dissipate and that is way too long for pro players. They cannot enforce any of the rubber regulations for the Olympics in Rio they stuffed up themselves getting all the research and data wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 00:28 
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Bobs_Your_Uncle wrote:
Hang on when the glue attracts to the sponge vocs and chemicals are produced anyways. So if you abide the ITTF rules you are still caught out 'bat doping' even with free voc glue. You would need the rubber to be on your bat for a least a week or two for the vocs to dissipate and that is way too long for pro players. They cannot enforce any of the rubber regulations for the Olympics in Rio they stuffed up themselves getting all the research and data wrong.


The new booster "oils" (Seamoon, DingJi, Dianchi, Falco) are not speed glues, and don't have VOCs. That's why they aren't detected by VOC sensing equipment at Racket Control. This is what Weikert was getting at - there's no method, at the moment, to detect boo.. er, bat doping. The problem with trying to develop some sort of chemical test for the things is that it's very likely there are very similar chemicals and oils in Tensors and Tenergy. A test for booster, er, bat dope will detect whatever's in Tenergy as well. So no chemical test will work, besides, as I said, it's perfectly legal for DHS to pre-dope (er, "tunn") their rubber sheets at the factory using the exact same chemicals you can buy in a bottle.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 11:09 
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The ITTF says "bat doping" is hard to detect, but then again, bat doping perfectly legal if done by preferred manufacturers.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2016, 01:32 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
The ITTF says "bat doping" is hard to detect, but then again, bat doping perfectly legal if done by preferred manufacturers.


I see nothing contradictory in that. Are you trying to imply it is? And it's not "perfectly legal if done by preferred manufacturers". It's "perfectly legal if done by ALL manufacturers."

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2016, 01:46 
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Wow. Lightning strikes twice in two days. Came across this in the Sports Pages when reading the paper this morning:

http://ultrasurfing.com/sports/world-no ... index.html

Quote:
World no. 1 Ma Long eyes table tennis medal at Rio 2016


Thu, Apr 14 2016 CDT

by Elizabeth Broomhall


Hong Kong (AFP)

World number one Ma Long of China earned a spot at the Rio Olympics after eliminating Fan Zhendong at the Asian qualifiers in Hong Kong Thursday in a dramatic showdown between the compatriots.

The 27-year-old star overpowered Fan four games to one in the finals, bringing him one step closer to his first Olympic medal for men's singles.

Ma was overlooked for the London 2012 singles event despite being considered one of the best table tennis players in the world at the time.

But he is now bouncing off a stellar 2015 during which he bagged the World Championship, World Cup and World Tour grand finals titles.

"The Olympics is different from the other competitions so mentally I need to work harder," he told AFP after the match.

He said the four-yearly event was the most important in his sporting career.

Ma is among 10 table tennis players -- five men and five women -- to earn a spot at Rio 2016 after the first stage of the Asia qualifiers in Hong Kong, which saw one male and one female player selected from East Asia, Southeast Asia, South Asia, West Asia and Middle Asia.

A Chinese quartet consisting of the world's top four men competed, but number three Xu Xin was stunned by Taiwan's unheralded Chuang Chih-yuan in the quarter finals while reigning Olympic singles champion Zhang Jike, ranked fourth in the globe, was beaten by Ma in the semis 4-2.

Another six men's and six women's singles places will be up for grabs in the second stage of the qualifying event kicking off Friday and open to the remaining players.

Xu told AFP the Chinese team would not be competing in the second stage but are hopeful for their share of further Olympic spots to be allocated in May based on world rankings.

- 'Perfect end' -

Among the women, it was China's reigning Olympic singles champion Li Xiaoxia who came out on top Thursday, triumphing 4-0 over Japan's Kasumi Ishikawa.

At number five Li is one spot behind Ishiwaka in the world rankings, but the 28-year-old showed no mercy in the final match.

She is now set to defend her title at the upcoming Rio Games, which she said would likely be "the perfect end" to her table tennis career.

Earlier in the qualifiers there were some shock upsets among the female players, with 19-year-old Hong Konger Doo Hoi Kem defeating China's world number one Liu Shiwen in a nail-biting match that ended 4-2 and marked Doo's first ever victory over a Chinese player.

She went on to knock out South Korea's feisty Jeon Jihee but was beaten by Li in the semi-finals.

Another teenager, Japanese Ito Mima, aged just 15, overpowered world number two Ding Ning, also from China, but had to bow out in a semi-final contest with Ishiwaka due to injury.

In Southeast Asia, Singapore dominated the entire first stage, with Feng Tianwei, ranked seventh globally, nabbing an Olympic place among the women and fellow Singaporean Chen Feng being selected for the men.

In the South Asia group, only India was involved, with Soumyajit Ghosh selected for the men's Olympic singles and Manika Batra for the women's.

Qatar's Li Ping and Lebanon's Mariana Sahakian were respectively successful in the men's and women's qualifiers for West Asia, while in Middle Asia it was Nima Alamian and Neda Shahsavari -- both from Iran.

Table tennis has been part of the Olympics since the 1988 Seoul Games but has been dominated by China.

The Asian giant sealed its second straight clean sweep of all four table tennis gold medals for the second Games running in London 2012.


Agence France-Presse

AFP journalists cover wars, conflicts, politics, science, health, the environment, technology, fashion, entertainment, the offbeat, sports and a whole lot more in text, photographs, video, graphics and online.

© 2016 AFP



Almost a half page. As I said, table tennis doesn't get much coverage. More positive than yesterday's article at any rate. :lol:

Wow... Liu Shiwen was beaten by HK player Doo Hoi Kem. And Mima-chan beat Ding Ning! Looks like Li Xiaoxia won - she seems to be a late bloomer (she's 28). Wonder if there's any videos. Time to go look.

Looks like mnnb's favorite Indian player is in the Olympics... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2016, 07:28 
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iskandar taib wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
The ITTF says "bat doping" is hard to detect, but then again, bat doping perfectly legal if done by preferred manufacturers.


I see nothing contradictory in that. Are you trying to imply it is? And it's not "perfectly legal if done by preferred manufacturers". It's "perfectly legal if done by ALL manufacturers."

Iskandar

I'm implying that the only reason any form of "bat doping" is legal at all is because the ITTF's preferred manufacturers wanted to be allowed to illegally change the properties of rubbers for extra profits so the ITTF said 'OK even though we've banned changing the properties of rubbers with chemicals, we'll allow our main advertisers to break this rule and gouge consumers. WINK!'

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2016, 11:34 
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Boy, you sure do have a way to twist anything into a conspiracy, don't you? Why would factory "doping" be "illegal" if it's not against the rules? I agree, by making it illegal that end-users do it themselves they're "forcing" people to buy "glue effect" rubbers (which are factory doped).

OK, so let's see - which of the manufacturers are "preferred"? And where in the rules does it say they're the only ones allowed to sell "tunned" sheets? Any manufacturer is allowed to do it, though from what certain "insiders" have been posting, the supplier of the most-doped rubber (DHS) DOESN'T factory dope at all. Apparently the users prefer to do it themselves.

No, the whole situation came about because of this rule:

>> 2.04.07 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment.

Why did this come about? It was to eliminate epoxy-tipped long pips and "anti-fied" rubber. The "ban" on booster, er, dope, is a side effect. And the tricky part is, if boosting is to be allowed, how would you modify this rule to allow it but not the other stuff? Easier said than done, but I'd like to see them try. Either that or continue with the status quo and just let the Igors of this world rant and rave about it.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bat doping"
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2016, 22:03 
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iskandar taib wrote:
... the whole situation came about because of this rule:

>> 2.04.07 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment.

Why did this come about? It was to eliminate epoxy-tipped long pips and "anti-fied" rubber. The "ban" on booster, er, dope, is a side effect. And the tricky part is, if boosting is to be allowed, how would you modify this rule to allow it but not the other stuff? Easier said than done, but I'd like to see them try. Either that or continue with the status quo and just let the Igors of this world rant and rave about it.

If you're going to accuse people of making up conspiracies, you should get your facts straight. You are completely wrong. The above rule was put in primarily to ban speed glue and then reworded after they later decided to ban non-VOC boosters.

The frictionless long pips ban was backdoored into effect years earlier without a vote by the national associations via a revision to a technical leaflet.

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