OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi
I am currently trying Long pips rubber.
Just got one the cheap ones to see how LP rubber plays.
Ideally of course I should try medium pips and short pips, maybe a few, however I wonder if I can somehow make some shortcuts by reading or watching some material?
There is wealth of quite deep information here on the boards but I am at the very beginning og the journey at the crossroads and few simple pointers would be greatly appreaciated.
Cheers

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I can definitely say there's a lot of material, especially on this forum. But collating and making sense of it all...

Probably best to take notes as you go along, or you'll probably get confused and won't remember something you read just a day or so ago...

Iskandar

I think if I had an opportunity again, I'd do several things differently. First, I'd ask myself some questions about my level and my objectives. I'll pretend to be me, when I first started messing about with LP

Q: What's your current level?
A: Novice local league player

This is important - your level dictates the extent to which you read and understand spin, and the game. It also is an indicator of how adaptable you might me. And, especially, it is probably a predictor of the kinds of players you will face.

Q: Why are you trying LP?
A: Because I admire defenders, and I'm curious. Also because I want a bit of help on service return.

This matters because it probably gives you a clue about the type of LP you want in terms of how grippy and how much sponge. It also probably tells you who to watch and learn from.

Q: Do you know what style you want to play? Do you want to be chopping away from the table, or messing people up, close to the table, or a bit of both? Do you want to attack?
A: I want to chop away from the table.

This is closely related to the first two questions. In practice if you're a low level player playing low level players, you're very likely to be playing close to the table blocking and bumping for quite a while. It will also feed into the grippiness and sponge question.

Q: How much money do you have to spend on this project?
A: I could probably afford to buy two or three full price major brand rubbers over a few months

This is actually more important than you think. I've been sorting through my old rubbers with a view to selling them or giving them away. I think I must have spent over 1000 pounds on rubbers! Being an EJ is expensive sometimes... If you have that kind of money to spend, invest it in a series of lessons with a coach that knows how to play the way you want to play, and a video camera. If you don't have much at all, then turn your attention to the cheaper rubbers. If you can afford a premium rubber, it's not a bad idea to just go for the one that is most obviously popular for the style you want to emulate.

Now we've got those questions out of the way, you should be in a position to know: a) How grippy the LP should be b) How much if any sponge you want and c) Whether to go for one of the cheap chinese brands, or a more expensive euro/jap one.

Next thing, I would, and I mean this in all honesty, pick one from the family that suits your answers, and stick with it for a year or more. I've been looking back on my notes - I finally settled on Hellfire somewhat more than 2 years ago I think. I didn't change that at all. I've learned so so much from sticking with that one rubber, and learning it inside out. I wish I had done that from day one. It really wouldn't have mattered which one it was, as long as I dug in and committed to the relationship.

My first LP was 755 Mystery III in 0.8mm sponge. That would have been a perfect place to start. If I had played for 5 years with that rubber instead of messing about, I'd think I would be a much better player now.

So: I wouldn't worry about trying to "compare" rubbers at this stage. I'd pick a solid reliable one that suits your style, objectives, and budget, and stick with it for a long time. Then you will know what you're comparing against if you ever change your mind.

I didn't touch on MP and SP. The process is the same - what's your level, why do you want to use pips, what style, what budget, pick something that fits, and use it. Good luck... answer the introductory questions, and people will doubtless be able to advise you on a reliable representative rubber that fits your needs.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

That is a fair bit to absorb, Lordcope.

I am trying LP because 1) I am curious and 2) to help with return of spinny serves to my BH.

I have achieved both goals, but I've lost few things on the way, like I rarely attack with my BH now and I do not like it.
I would like to gain some attacking capabilities on my BH.
I wouldn't mind to continue with my current LP for many more months as I just touched a tip of an iceberg of what it can do, but curiosity is trying to get better of me already making me wonder how medium and short pips are different.

I know that I will not be chopping away from the table as there is no "away" where I play.
So which one fit best for close to the table game?

I used to be able to do great flat smashes on my BH, but I do not have much confidence with LP to do that, as control is difficult, and long balls and pop ups from LP side are frequent in my game.

How much I wanna spend. As little as possible, just enough to find something I like and stick with it.

Easy to achieve! My only counsel based on my own experience is that becoming proficient with LP requires a lot of sensitivity and touch and feeling. My experience is that you develop this feeling and feedback best from sticking with one thing for a long time. Changing a lot, by contrast, seems to prevent or at least slow the acquisition of these skills.



I'll let others give specific recommendations, but there are several LP which are ideally suited to attacking and blocking. There are several people on the forum who can give good recommendations on a rubber well-suited to this. You'll likely get a few recommendations, so just pick the one with the name you like best or that is easiest / cheapest for you to try.



In my view they will make very little difference to your service return. They're easier to attack with, but much less dangerous for blocking / chop blocking.



Yep, I think that's a very tricky shot to get right. Much easier with inverted or sp. Depends how much you value this, though.



I think everyone who ever tried LP has had to go through this. It's not easy to play reliably, skilfully, and threateningly with LP. It's as much of a learning curve as any other rubber / style.




Here's the rub. My strong contention is there's no such thing. Having narrowed down the options, as a novice LP player, you'll dislike each rubber as much as the other, in that you'll struggle to control it, struggle not to be passive, struggle with length, placement etc etc. You'll grow to like it by virtue of getting to know it very very well, through hours and hours of practice. Honestly: wait until you get one or more recommendations and pick one. I can give you a recommendtion if you like - I've used S&T Hellfire for a long time. It's very good for service return and close to the table blocking, and you can attack with it. The only trouble is it's quite expensive. However I have one or two spare red sheets (already cut) that you can have for not a lot, if you like. Otherwise, wait for other opinions and pick one.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I don't know if you've figured this out yet, but:

Long pips vs. short pips (medium pips would be, er, somewhere in between):

Long pips are essentially "slick". When the ball hits the rubber, the spin doesn't affect how it bounces off the surface nearly as much as it does inverted rubber. The rubber will, to varying degrees, return the spin - if your opponents sends topspin, it bounces off your racket with what amounts to backspin. This confuses the other guy, especially if he is a low level player who doesn't play against long pips every day, because you can block the ball back with a closed bat and it'll come back with the opposite of the spin your opponent think it has. By the same token, to varying degrees (depending on the particular pips), the ability to generate spin is a lot less. There was a time when people were allowed to use the same color rubber on both sides - some people made it a practice to flip the bat around at random times at the serve, while stamping their feet on the floor to disguise the sound, this would confuse the opponent and half of the serve returns would end up in the net or off the table. The reason long pips is popular with choppers (who defend back from the table) is it makes chopping very spinny loops easier. But this is something for higher level players to worry about - at the lower levels, opponents can't loop consistently anyway, and the main reason to use long pips is to confuse the opponent. Look up Manika Bhatra on YouTube to see what someone who plays with long pips close to the table plays like.

Short pips have a lot more friction than long pips does, though not as much as inverted rubber. It's mainly used for attacking and blocking close to the table, using flattish hits, though there are a few defensive players (away-from-the-table choppers) who use it rather than long pips. In general, short pips players play close to the table rather than retreating and looping because you can't generate as much spin with it as you can with inverted rubber (there are exceptions). It also reacts less to spin than does inverted rubber. Attacking shots tend to have a flatter trajectory than with inverted. Notable short pips players would be Carl Prean, Liu Guoliang, Johnny Huang, Ito Mima (inverted forehand) and Mattias Falck (inverted forehand). Look up on YouTube.

Iskandar

A lot of good info here. Read the lengthy Intro, 5-10 minutes, well worth your time. Then you can come back here and make a better decision.

https://m.facebook.com/NorthLittleRockTableTennisGroup/

A good Coaching source for inverted rubber and long pips players. She has some beginner long pips videos which you should watch.

Free detailed step by step coaching videos available at:

YouTube yangyang TT

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC10OPV ... 1a9lW5r4Sg

Long pips without sponge is better for close to the table play for beginners.

_________________
Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed

Falck actually plays with SP on his FH.

Long story short, buy 802 and go from there.

OP - to be clear this is a classic Chinese short pip. As a short pip rubber, it's superb, and I'd definitely recommend it as a starter SP. However it bears no resemblence to LP.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

If you are going to use pips-out rubber it sounds like you should use short pips. They are best for attacking close to the table and use more flat hit, they are also great for blocking and serve return

A fair bit of information to soak in.
Thanks
Watched a bit of Manika, Bilenko and Hun.
Very interesting.
Thanks!

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I tend to think now that LPs are too challenging for the new player, and it might be better to start with SP or MP.

I tried Palio CK531A LP rubber, and now put RITC 563 OX Medium Pimple Rubber on the same racket.

I can handle it way better, specifically closer to the table as the space behind the table is limited.

The rubber is more sensitive to spin but not as sensitive as sticky inverted.
But what is really good, I can apply spin myself with this rubber, which gives me extra attacking capabilities.

One small concern is that my N11 is fairly hard, and unless I relax the wrist, it's fairly trick to control incoming power with OX.
But that could be managed with better skills and possibly softer racket.

The N11 is a somewhat fast blade. Try a M8. I used to use the N11, the M8 gives better control closer to the table.

Iskandar

What BH rubber did you use previously?

If it was a spinny inverted going to LP is quite a leap just to get less spin sensitivity. You could achieve that with a less spinny inverted or an SP without losing too much attacking capability.
Even a half anti or classic anti would be an easier transition than LP. Of course, no reason why you shouldn't try LP, but be prepared for lots of practice (and frustration!).

_________________
2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX