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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 03:12 
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iskandar taib wrote:
The flat palm rule is very lax. You would have to really cup the ball before you would get called in most tourneys.


iskander, they changed the wording slightly on this rule a few years back. It used to require an "open, flat" palm. They then changed it to just "open" palm, deleting the "flat" adjective. The new wording allows for the hand to be cupped to better stabilize the ball--just as long as the hand isn't cupped so much the ball is hidden from umpire or opponent.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 03:31 
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Nice thread.. I just started playing again after maybe 15 years and I have started a table tennis club at the college I work at.. We just play for fun but I like to be clear on the rules. Two incidents came up and I adjudicated because I am the most experienced player. However, on the second point I am not quite sure, and it doesn't seem to be made clear in the ITTF rules or anything else that I have seen..

1. If the ball hits the player's finger does the player lose a point?

I was playing quite a competitive guy and as I went to hit the ball with a forehand push the ball flew off in completely a different direction and landed on the other side of the table over the net. It may have hit my thumb. I said it was my point.

From what I have read elsewhere, and near the beginning of this thread, this seems to be the correct decision. Is this rule enforced throughout table tennis clubs and leagues? I say this because the rule apparently changed quite recently, and if two players agreed then maybe the point would be given to the other player (i.e. if the ball really flew off in another direction and represented an unfair advantage).

2. What happens when a player while serving drops the ball on to the table as he swings to serve?

I called a point for his opponent. I am not so sure about this as players regularly bounce or touch the table with the ball before serving... I can't see the clear rule on this.

Obviously, someone can throw the ball up and choose not to serve if they catch the ball without touching the bat.


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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 04:51 
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The serve begins as soon as the ball is tossed, catch the ball, lose the point! :)
Not like tennis.


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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 06:42 
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hookshot wrote:
The serve begins as soon as the ball is tossed, catch the ball, lose the point! :)
Not like tennis.


Are you 100% on that?


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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 08:51 
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Yepp. :)


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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 13:39 
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simonsays wrote:
hookshot wrote:
The serve begins as soon as the ball is tossed, catch the ball, lose the point! :)
Not like tennis.


Are you 100% on that?

yes once it leaves the hand the serve has started, (mind you if the ball lands on the table thats maybe another thing that shouldn't be happening as the serve must be behind the end line (which continues in each direction) hard to explain lol, but you cant serve over the table

the other question is the wrist up is counted as part of the bat, so accidental knuckles , fingers etc is play on

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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 18:54 
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The hitting with fingers/hand does not give good control, so I don't think it can be deemed that the player gains an unfair advantage. You can't use it deliberately. It is just lucky, much like hitting the net: most of the time it is a lost point, but sometimes the ball gets to the table in an unexpected direction and wins the point.

The rule change you refer to must be the change from "hitting the ball twice in a row" to "deliberately hitting the ball twice in a row".
2.10.01.06 - [a player shall score a point] if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;
A double strike may occur when the ball hits the rubber first, then the finger (or vice versa), which will not be deliberate in any practical case. (As rodderz said, a clean hit with parts of the bat hand has always been allowed.)
Unintentional double strike is also conceivable with a curved stroke movement, like the tomahawk serve, ghost serves, and some loop strokes.

As for bouncing the ball when swinging for the serve:
2.06.01 - Service shall start with the ball resting freely on the open palm of the server's stationary free hand.
When the ball is bounced when the swing/backswing is started, I don't think the player could have time to put the ball to rest, stationary, and then correctly toss it for the serve.
In a proper match a warning is appropriate on first occurrence. If the serving practice continues after a warning, the server loses the point.
For social games, I'd let it pass.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2014, 23:19 
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hookshot wrote:
Yepp. :)


I second that. A well-known fact, even Wikipedia and CNN know this is true. Just call them and ask.

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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2014, 07:29 
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I was resting and watching another game... when in a ralley, player A, who is a very good player, hit a high backspin ball just over the net which spun back to his side of the table. Player B moved round to the side of the table and smashed a "winner" from above the opponents court . To my surprise, player A said the point was his as player B didn't hit the ball from over his own court, so his shot didn't pass over or around the net.

What is the correct ruling here?


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2014, 07:44 
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Player B as long as he did not impede player A. It doesn't matter where player B plays their shot as long as it goes in.

As an aside, the best shot in this position, I am told, is for player B to hit it back into the net so that player A has absolutely no chance of getting it.

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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2014, 08:09 
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Spartan62 wrote:
I was resting and watching another game... when in a ralley, player A, who is a very good player, hit a high backspin ball just over the net which spun back to his side of the table. Player B moved round to the side of the table and smashed a "winner" from above the opponents court . To my surprise, player A said the point was his as player B didn't hit the ball from over his own court, so his shot didn't pass over or around the net.

What is the correct ruling here?


2.5.14 The ball shall be regarded as
passing over or around the net
assembly if it passes anywhere other
than between the net and the net
post or between the net and the
playing surface.

It is seemingly contradictory, but since the ball did not pass between the net and post or between the net and playing surface, it is by definition considered to have passed "over or around" the net ... even if in fact that happened before it was struck.

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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2014, 09:42 
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SERVER'S FAULT, UMPIRE'S OUT :) :)

Boy in red, defective service continued... Timing 00:00:25 and onwards.

SERVICE FAULT.
Hand's palm with the ball MAY NOT remove any horizontally; after being hold stationary the palm must be only projected upwards.. No movements sideways allowed. Never.

http://youtu.be/Kibz1qjKz94

Both umpire and subumpire do have poor knowledge of the ServiceRule.
They all surely need a good teacher to refresh their rule knowledge.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2014, 20:18 
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Silver wrote:
Juan King Carlos wrote:

Do you know which rule or regulation says that? I found this one.

2.04.08 - At the start of a match and whenever he changes his racket during a match a player shall show his opponent and the umpire the racket he is about to use and shall allow them to examine it.


under Match Conduct.

3.04.02.02 A racket shall not be replaced during an individual match unless it is accidentally damaged so badly that it cannot be used; if this happens the damaged racket shall be replaced immediately by another which the player has brought with him to the playing area or one which is handed to him in the playing area.

International, but associations adhere to the rules anyway.


Where do you look this up? It's not in the Rules.

This seems to have changed since the 1990s - from what I recall of discussions on Usenet back then you were allowed to change rackets at will. There was even a story of a player who used two separate rackets when playing under the expedite rule, he'd use one when receiving the serve and the other when serving. You did have to show the other guy what you were using, of course.

I also wonder about ambidextrous players - there's at least one video on YouTube of players who switch hands, almost every shot is a forehand. Is someone like this allowed to play with TWO bats???

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2015, 04:57 
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c You are struggling to reach a ball and as you only have a cheap premade bat you decide to throw it at the ball and it mysteriously returns it, who's point is it? (seen it done one)
You lost the point...9.9.2 says ....'a player who drops his or her racket during a rally but attempts to return the ball by hitting it with the hand can not make a good return.' This clearly explains the situation.You have to hit the ball when your racket is in your hand.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2015, 05:10 
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gibxam wrote:
I think this is a great idea mm. Although hopefully this won't turn into an argumentative forum ;).
I have heard both answers from different people.

Question: Does the racket have to be visible before/during your serve?

No...10.5.2 says '...There is ,however no specific requarement for the receiver to be able to see the racket throughout service,and the server may quite legitiamately begin service with the racket concealed,For example ,behind his or her back


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