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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 04:57 
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I have an out-of-warranty Newgy 2040 robot that's five or six years old. It's pretty much crap now. Sprays balls all over the place, very inconsistent and very frustrating to use.

Anyway, Newgy has a $479 Digital Upgrade Kit that basically reuses the catch net, but otherwise is a replacement robot that offers some additional functions.

Of course, it still has all the limitations of a one-wheel robot, namely unrealistic spin.

My question is should I spend $479 for the upgrade kit?

Other alternatives are the $269 cheaper Newgy 1040, which has a capacity of 200 balls and the added advantage of every ball not originating from the center of the table. Then again, it sits on the portion of the table I'll likely be aiming at (backhand to backhand), so probably balls will be hitting the robot and flying all over (and I won't be able to see where [or if] they land on the table).

Or should I just forget about Newgy and get a different robot?

I need something with consistency that can do sidespin.

Decisions. Decisions.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 08:20 
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We have a 2040 at our club and monday I bought a 1050 for our club. Today the first test with it (beginners training). It seems I still need to setup the pace (didnt have time), but the machine does already look way better than the 2040. I dont miss the catchnet a lot, and for some reason our beginners love picking up balls and it is way faster to set up. For private use a catchnet would be an advantage.
The 1050 is way more accurate than our 2040, even when aiming at 1 point. Its easy to use in manual mode, showed another trainer (16 year old first team player) who never used 1 before how it works and within 2 mins he could use the manual mode to practice easy forehand strokes with beginners. Also the angle of the oscillatorhead is better to set up.
For the drills its easy to see how high it should be for aiming and the placement for the drills is deadly accurate so far.
We put the 1050 the addiontional cart(? not sure if i say it correct, the additional thing you can order to place the robot away from the table), because otherwise bounce was a bit high and unrealistic. The 2040 sits lower on the table, so I would already pick a upgrade kit over the 1040, because in that setup its more realistic.

Only downside so far was with the drills. The pace seems quite high, but nothing too bad till you get to the expert drills (last 3). I let the 16 year old youth player do one of these and the pace was way too high. While his skills are excellent, it was impossible for him to keep up with the pace. But I think its just a matter of setting the speed correctly at the setup, so I will check that tomorrow. When changing the speed too much inside the programmed drill, it wouldnt work anymore as it should. But I just checked youtube and found a video from Samson Dubina doing all the drills and drill 62 had a normal pace in his video. So I think its just a matter of setting it up.

But to be short. The upgrade kit makes your 2040 way better in my eyes. It has the preset drills and basically can remove the ones you will never use and add exercises how you want them. I was really surprised how good it worked going from a short ball to a fast deep ball. It just takes the robot to a whole other level.

mynamenotbob wrote:
I have an out-of-warranty Newgy 2040 robot that's five or six years old. It's pretty much crap now. Sprays balls all over the place, very inconsistent and very frustrating to use.

Anyway, Newgy has a $479 Digital Upgrade Kit that basically reuses the catch net, but otherwise is a replacement robot that offers some additional functions.

Of course, it still has all the limitations of a one-wheel robot, namely unrealistic spin.

My question is should I spend $479 for the upgrade kit?

Other alternatives are the $269 cheaper Newgy 1040, which has a capacity of 200 balls and the added advantage of every ball not originating from the center of the table. Then again, it sits on the portion of the table I'll likely be aiming at (backhand to backhand), so probably balls will be hitting the robot and flying all over (and I won't be able to see where [or if] they land on the table).

Or should I just forget about Newgy and get a different robot?

I need something with consistency that can do sidespin.

Decisions. Decisions.


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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 03:43 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
I have an out-of-warranty Newgy 2040 robot that's five or six years old. It's pretty much crap now. Sprays balls all over the place, very inconsistent and very frustrating to use.


You probably just have a dirty wheel and/or Friction Block. Have you ever cleaned these parts? They're right inside the discharge hole where the ball comes out. They're both rubber parts that will attract the dirt that is on the smooth surface of the ball as the ball is pushed past these two parts as it is ejected.

When dirt builds up too much on these rubber surfaces, it decreases the distance between them, in essence, squeezing the ball too tightly and causing the ball to be propelled in almost any direction except straight ahead. Normally, a simple cleaning of the wheel and Friction Block is all that is needed. But beware, dirt binds tightly to the rubber surfaces, so either use the Rubber Drive Cleaner (RDC) that Newgy sells or use a water-based cleaner (Fantastic, 409, Simple Green, etc.) with an old toothbrush to scrub the rubber surfaces to remove the dirt.

The RDC truly makes this job much more simple and faster. With RDC, I simply wet a rag with the fluid, insert the wetted part of the rag into the discharge hole, and while holding the wheel still with my other index finger, rub the wetted rag over the rubber surfaces and the dirt comes off easily. This might take perhaps 5 minutes, top.

If cleaning the wheel and Friction Block does not resolve the problem, then it is time to replace those 2 parts as they are worn out. In rare cases, other parts of the head may also be worn out, but in 20+ years of fixing Newgy Robots, cleaning the wheel and FB fixes the problem perhaps 75% of the time and replacing those two parts 24% of the time. The other 1% requires replacement of other head parts.

mynamenotbob wrote:
Anyway, Newgy has a $479 Digital Upgrade Kit that basically reuses the catch net, but otherwise is a replacement robot that offers some additional functions.


IMO (I'm biased, of course, as I am one of the designers of the digital system), the digital system is probably 10 times more capable than the older analog system that you have. The digital controller offers:

64 drills by simply selecting a number (drills are described in the Owner's Manual--available as a free download off Newgy.com if you want to check them out). Drills are not offered on our analog robots.
You can speed up/slow down both the frequency and ball speed of drills to suit the abilities of the individual player.
Customization of drills if you hook the controller up to a PC.
Randomization controls for ball speed (which varies landing spot forward-backward), oscillation (left-right), and Wait (to vary the amount of time between each shot). Analog robots offer only oscillation randomization.
Stopping ball delivery by time, number of balls (or repetitions of a drill), or manual press of a button. Analog robots can stop ball delivery only by manipulation of a button or knob.
A Right-Left switch so drills work correctly for righties or lefties (or as a new variation of an asymmetrical drill without re-writing the drill).
More precise left-right landing spots (21 oscillation positions) and the ability to string consecutive landing spots into a drill (or pattern of shots). Analog robots only offer imprecise left-right positioning unless you stop oscillation and place the ball in only one spot.
Pulse Width Modulation instead of Voltage Regulation to control ball feed. This provides more torque to the motor and allows us to vary the Balls Per Minute from about 1 BPM to 170 BPM. The range on analog robots is about 15 to 90 BPM.
Selection of languages to display the menu system--English, Spanish, French, German, Chinese, Japanese.
Self-Diagnostics, Fast Ball Unloading (for quickly emptying the robot's trays of balls for service practice), and Factory Default Restoration.
Higher ball speeds--perhaps 5 MPH faster at the top end than the analog robots.
An automatic ball feed routine to speed up ball feed in case the robot misses picking up a ball.

In addition to the above capabilities of the digital controller, we also increased the range of the oscillator assembly so that balls can be thrown off the sides of the table instead of only off the end of the tables as with analog robots and we also redesigned the front cover to prevent balls from hanging up in the trays and redesigned the Ball Pickup mechanism to assure more reliable ball pickup.

There are probably other things I'm forgetting, but that should give you a pretty good understanding that the digital system is much more capable than our older analog system.

mynamenotbob wrote:
Of course, it still has all the limitations of a one-wheel robot, namely unrealistic spin.


Yes and no, IMO. There are limitations to a 1-wheel robot: it can't throw a no-spin ball or a heavy-spin, slow-speed loop or chop for instance. But for the shots it does throw, I actually find them to be more realistic than almost any 2 or even 3 wheel robot that I've tested (and I've tested many). I find the spin on Y&T robots to be lacking and inconsistent. The spin on all deflector plate robots (Killerspin, Amicus) to be truly unrealistic because the ball deflects off the plate after it is thrown forward by the wheels, changing the spin axis.

And I do agree that for lower levels, the backspin from Newgy robots could be considered too strong. However, at the 2000 level and up, the level of backspin is comparable to shots I see regularly in a game and even from below 2000 level choppers and LP blockers.

mynamenotbob wrote:
My question is should I spend $479 for the upgrade kit?


Yes, without any reservation. You'll get a much more capable, challenging, and fun product.

mynamenotbob wrote:
Other alternatives are the $269 cheaper Newgy 1040, which has a capacity of 200 balls and the added advantage of every ball not originating from the center of the table. Then again, it sits on the portion of the table I'll likely be aiming at (backhand to backhand), so probably balls will be hitting the robot and flying all over (and I won't be able to see where [or if] they land on the table).


Or simply buy a Ball Bucket and Extender cage and you can mount the robot body from your 2040 (provided of course you get it throwing balls correctly) in the Ball Bucket and turn it into a 1040. For that matter, you could simply remove your 2040 from the end of your table, insert your ball dams, fold it up, and place it on top of the table to get the same effect as the bucket mounted 1040.

mynamenotbob wrote:
Or should I just forget about Newgy and get a different robot?


A very baaaad idea that will cause the TT gods to harden your long pips and cause them to break off!

Larry


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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 04:13 
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Denniz wrote:
Only downside so far was with the drills. The pace seems quite high, but nothing too bad till you get to the expert drills (last 3). I let the 16 year old youth player do one of these and the pace was way too high. While his skills are excellent, it was impossible for him to keep up with the pace. But I think its just a matter of setting the speed correctly at the setup, so I will check that tomorrow. When changing the speed too much inside the programmed drill, it wouldnt work anymore as it should. But I just checked youtube and found a video from Samson Dubina doing all the drills and drill 62 had a normal pace in his video. So I think its just a matter of setting it up.


Each drill offers a "Wait Adjust" to slow down/speed up the timing of the shots within a drill. The timing between shots was set to simulate as best we could the natural timing of a similar rally in a game. This means that as your returned shot reaches the robot's net, the next ball is thrown out. But because this natural timing varies a lot depending on a number of factors (how quickly after the bounce the ball is contacted, type of rubber used, how much speed is applied, etc.) we provided an easy way for the user to slow down or speed up the drill. For more time between each shot set the Wait Adjust to say 120% or 130% (up to 900%). If you want to speed up a drill, set Wait Adjust to 70% or 80% (down to 10%). Works very well in my tests.

Each drill also has a Speed Adjust to control the ball speed. It ranges from -9 to +9 and adds to or subtracts from the speed setting for each ball in a drill. This works well for drills that have a single speed for all balls in the drill (for instance drill 6 - speed set to 15 or 16 if I recall correctly), but doesn't work so well for drills that have a wide variance in ball speeds (say 2 for the short serve and 20 for the wide forehand).

You may also want to consider mounting your 1050 into your 2040's net system by buying a new Collector Plate. It would then, in essence, become a 2050. Then mount your 2040 in your 1050's Ball Bucket to transform it into a 1040. Use the 1040 for beginners and use the 2050 for more advanced players or specialized drills for anyone.

Enjoy!

Larry


Last edited by larrythoman on 18 Jan 2014, 01:00, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 06:38 
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Hi Larry and Denniz, thanks for the information.

I just rescrubbed on the wheel and friction block again with the Newgy cleaner and the robot was still throwing erratic. Set on topspin at a level of 5 (still quite slow) about 50% of the balls are on the table. At 7 maybe 10% land and at 10 they hardly ever hit.

I don't care about the programmable stuff that much.

I also have an expensive Amicus 3000a (which has its own problems in an inability to do sidespin and a really atrocious, horrible catch net design).

I use the Amicus mainly for no-spin practice and I also like the variability in spins it can produce.

I mainly use the 2040 for practicing serve returns. It's really great for that. If I could also practice blocking hard shots with it, I'd probably leave the 2040 up most the time, but unfortunately it's pretty useless for working with shots having any pace in its current condition.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 08:53 
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He larrythoman,
I did found the adjust options. The wait adjust is handy, although I dislike it gives a lot of time before starting the drill again. But when I adjusted the speed further than -2, the short ball would just drop out and at times the 2 forehand balls would drop out together with no pace. So I couldnt adjust it more than -2 and than it was still way too fast. We have a guy playing highest Dutch league at our club and Im 100% sure he wont be able to keep up with that pace.
But the oscilater calibration was set on 28 at unpacking, so I think I need to set the overall speed too when I have time.

The idea you have about the changing up the 1050 and 2040 is a nice idea.
Btw, you seem to know a lot about the robot. Why is it that i cant connect the remote to the table? We play with the Joola Olympics and there is no thin spot on the table for the holder. It is possible to connect the remote of the 2040 to the table.

larrythoman wrote:
Denniz wrote:
Only downside so far was with the drills. The pace seems quite high, but nothing too bad till you get to the expert drills (last 3). I let the 16 year old youth player do one of these and the pace was way too high. While his skills are excellent, it was impossible for him to keep up with the pace. But I think its just a matter of setting the speed correctly at the setup, so I will check that tomorrow. When changing the speed too much inside the programmed drill, it wouldnt work anymore as it should. But I just checked youtube and found a video from Samson Dubina doing all the drills and drill 62 had a normal pace in his video. So I think its just a matter of setting it up.


Each drill offers a "Wait Adjust" to slow down/speed up the timing of the shots within a drill. The timing between shots was set to simulate as best we could the natural timing of a similar rally in a game. This means that as your returned shot reaches the robot's net, the next ball is thrown out. But because this natural timing varies a lot depending on a number of factors (how quickly after the bounce the ball is contacted, type of rubber used, how much speed is applied, etc.) we provided an easy way for the user to slow down or speed up the drill. For more time between each shot set the Wait Adjust to say 120% or 130% (up to 900%). If you want to speed up a drill, set Wait Adjust to 70% or 80% (down to 10%). Works very well in my tests.

Each drill also has a Speed Adjust to control the ball speed. It ranges from -9 to +9 and adds to or subtracts from the speed setting for each ball in a drill. This works well for drills that have a single speed for all balls in the drill (for instance drill 6 - speed set to 5 or 16 if I recall correctly), but doesn't work so well for drills that have a wide variance in ball speeds (say 2 for the short serve and 20 for the wide forehand).

You may also want to consider mounting your 1050 into your 2040's net system by buying a new Collector Plate. It would then, in essence, become a 2050. Then mount your 2040 in your 1050's Ball Bucket to transform it into a 1040. Use the 1040 for beginners and use the 2050 for more advanced players or specialized drills for anyone.

Enjoy!

Larry


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2014, 00:32 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
I just rescrubbed on the wheel and friction block again with the Newgy cleaner and the robot was still throwing erratic. Set on topspin at a level of 5 (still quite slow) about 50% of the balls are on the table. At 7 maybe 10% land and at 10 they hardly ever hit.


This would be consistent with a worn out wheel. The faster the wheel spins, the worse the problem becomes. I would say it is time to replace the wheel and Friction Block. Those are the parts that wear the most in our robots as the ball is squeezed between those two parts every time the robot throws a ball, wearing away the rubber surface a little each time. If you want to replace these parts yourself, you can get the two parts for about $5 each from Newgy USA. There are a couple of disassembly/reassembly cautions, however:

When disassembling the head, do so over a towel. When the two head halves come apart, a steel ball that sits atop a spring (responsible for the clicking noise as the robot head is rotated) can pop out. If it hits a hard surface it will bounce and possibly be lost, but if it hits a towel it will not go anywhere.

The wheel is attached to the motor with a left-hand threaded screw. Remove by turning clockwise, tighten by turning counter-clockwise.

Sometimes the wheel can be tough to remove from the motor shaft. We use a small wheel puller. But I know of many customers who have removed these with their hands or with small hand tools.

mynamenotbob wrote:
I don't care about the programmable stuff that much.


Then by all means stay with our analog robot--it's less expensive, more simplistic (although I'd argue that if you use the digital robot to only replicate the same functions available in the analog design, the digital design is even more simple), and is a time-proven design.

mynamenotbob wrote:
I mainly use the 2040 for practicing serve returns. It's really great for that. If I could also practice blocking hard shots with it, I'd probably leave the 2040 up most the time, but unfortunately it's pretty useless for working with shots having any pace in its current condition.


I also practiced service return a lot with my 2040 and now with my 2050. With the 2040, I primarily practiced against short side-topspin and side-backspin serves. Then I'd re-set to longer serves and I'd practice looping with my FH or rolling them with my BH. The thing I like better with the 2050 is that I don't have to re-set the robot to practice against short and long returns--I can vary the ball speed to produce random short and long serves. I think this is a better simulation of actual play and sharpens my decision-making on the length of the serve.

Regarding blocking hard shots, the digital design does offer a few more MPH on the top end for even harder shots, and you can also vary ball speeds to get a greater range of medium to fast loops to better simulate the variety of loops you'd get in a game.

If you're happy with your 2040 other than the erratic throwing behavior, I see no reason to get a new robot. Just fix the one you got. I've not yet found a Newgy robot that we can't repair and repairs are much less costly than buying a new one (usually no more than $50-$100). I like to compare our robot's wheel to a tire on your car--they're both going to wear out and need to be replaced on occasion.

Alternatively, you could order the 40mm Upgrade Kit. It is an exact replacement for your 2040 robot body and is only $229. At this time, we only have one in stock, but we also have 3 Reconditioned units for $207. You'll need to call us as we don't currently have these on our website due to the low stock situation.

Larry


Last edited by larrythoman on 18 Jan 2014, 01:03, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2014, 03:26 
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Denniz wrote:
I did found the adjust options. The wait adjust is handy, although I dislike it gives a lot of time before starting the drill again.


The Wait Adjust does not affect the startup sequence. All drills in Drill Mode and all rallies in Normal Mode start with a 3 second series of beeps to prepare the user for the ball to be delivered. That way you're not still fumbling with the Control Box as a ball is being delivered. This startup sequence occurs immediately after you press the Start button and not between repetitions of a drill

What you may be talking about is the time that is programmed in each drill between the last and first ball of the drill. This is a standard WAIT command and as such would respond to changes in the WAIT ADJUST setting. When the drills were written, we intentionally included a longer WAIT between the last and first balls of a drill that starts with a serve (like Drill 14, for instance). This was to better replicate the rhythm of points in an actual match where there is normally a short pause as the server gets into position to serve and the receiver gets into his/her ready position. For drills that don't start with a serve (like Drill 6) the WAIT between the last and first ball is usually the same as other WAITs between the other balls in that drill.

If you are dissatisfied with the way the drill runs by using the WAIT ADJUST command, you can re-write the drill by connecting your control box to a Windows PC and opening the drill commands in Robo-Soft. You can then change the WAIT commands to whatever you want and then run that drill from Robo-Soft or save it back to your control box. See your Owner's Manual for more details on how to do this.

Denniz wrote:
But when I adjusted the speed further than -2, the short ball would just drop out and at times the 2 forehand balls would drop out together with no pace. So I couldnt adjust it more than -2 and than it was still way too fast. We have a guy playing highest Dutch league at our club and Im 100% sure he wont be able to keep up with that pace.


This is probably because a short serve usually has a SPEED of only 1 or 2. So by using a SPEED ADJUST of -2, you were telling the robot to set the SPEED to 0 (2-2=0), which meant the wheel would not turn and balls would just drop out of the discharge hole.

There are limitations to using the SPEED ADJUST command. As I pointed out in my previous post, it does not work well for drills that have different speeds within that drill. This would be any drill that has balls that are placed at varying depths on the table (such as a drill that starts with a short serve--slow speed--followed by a ball placed deep on the table--fast speed). The SPEED ADJUST command works best on drills with only one SPEED command for all balls within that drill.

Something else you may want to look at is the SPEED CALIBRATION setting in the SETUP menu. This should be set to 10, especially for a new unit. This should only be changed after your unit wears and you begin noticing a lack of speed and you use this command to adjust the speed back to normal.

If SPEED CALIBRATION is improperly set, normal speed is no longer normal, and all speeds set in a drill will be off. SPEED CALIBRATION is not meant to speed boost your robot. The normal range of the SPEED is 0-30 and at 30, it is the highest speed that the motor was designed to handle. So setting the SPEED CALIBRATION to 15 (10 is default), for instance, will not gain any extra speed, it will simply cause all speeds below 25 to be off by +5 and all speeds above 25 to change to 30.

I would be very surprised if the robot is throwing the ball too fast for a player of that caliber. Players of that caliber can routinely hit the ball harder and with more spin than our robot can. What I could understand, however, is the robot throwing the ball too quickly for that caliber of player. The 2050/1050 offers WAIT times of as little as 0.35 second. That is too quick for even a world-class player.

But again, if any drill doesn't run the way you or another user wants, you can re-write that drill with Robo-Soft to use any WAIT or SPEED you want. Our system is very flexible in that regard.

Denniz wrote:
But the oscilater calibration was set on 28 at unpacking, so I think I need to set the overall speed too when I have time.


An OSCILLATOR CALIBRATION setting of 28 would be pretty typical. That setting simply aligns a POSITION setting of 10 to the centerline of the table so that POSITION settings of 0-9 are to the left of the centerline and POSITION settings of 11-20 are to the right of the centerline. To check the calibration, simply set your POSITION to 10 and see if balls are delivered down the centerline. If not, go to OSCILLATOR CALIBRATION and adjust as described in the Owner's Manual.

If by "setting the overall speed" you mean adjusting the SPEED CALIBRATION, then I would caution against doing so, especially if your unit is new. That function was designed to re-calibrate SPEED after parts wear down and the speed drops. Doing this incorrectly will cause all SPEEDs to be off.

Denniz wrote:
Btw, you seem to know a lot about the robot. Why is it that i cant connect the remote to the table? We play with the Joola Olympics and there is no thin spot on the table for the holder. It is possible to connect the remote of the 2040 to the table.


Yes, I've worked for Newgy since it first started in 1988 and am very familiar with all of our models. Regarding the 1050/2050 remote, its bracket was designed to fit a wide variety of tables up to a 1 inch (25.4 mm) thick top. But I've noticed since then that some tables are coming with even thicker tops, maybe 26 or even 27mm. The bracket should fit these models except they won't lay completely flat--they'll be slightly inclined upward.

Another problem is the height and depth of the side apron of the table. Again we've tested on a wide variety of tables and were able to fit it on all that we tried. However, we have had reports of some older Chinese non-commercial tables with very tall aprons. For these we developed an Extendable Bracket that can be obtained through Newgy if you're in the US or Donic if you're in Europe. Let me know the thickness of the table top and the height and depth of the apron, and I'll try to simulate that here to see if our bracket fits those dimensions.

Also be aware that our bracket, even though it looks similar to clamping style net standards, is not a clamp. It is an adjusting screw to adapt the bracket to a wide variety of top thicknesses from 0.25 to 1 inch. "Tightening" the screw will not cause the bracket to clamp to the table top--it will merely cause the bracket to not lay flat. The bracket was designed to attach the control box to the table by friction only, similar to the way the 2040/2050 net systems were designed to attach to the table (for quick attachment to or removal from the table without having to tighten/loosen a clamp). See setup steps 10 & 11 on page 2 of your Owner's Manual for more explanation.

Larry


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