OOAK Table Tennis Forum

For many players the meaning of being able to compete in an officially recognized world-class event far out weights the prize money offered in others tournaments (such as $100K Budlite or Sandpaper tourneys).

The USATT's message should be "we brought back big time table tennis…our sport is on the rise again!" Instead we say we don't want to do it again next year because it's too much work. This sends such a negative message. Organizers in other countries have the same demands and workload and they get it done year after year. Why is it not too much work for them, but too much work for us?

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Because we have a player base of only about 8000 and hence very little money (hard to get sponsors chasing a group of 8000) is available to support these events. As a comparison, Japan has a player base of around 300,000 for a land mass a tad smaller than the state of California. Player numbers and densities are much higher in Europe as well.

[Edit: Just did some research on the ETTU. From their website: "According to the latest information, more than 4 million people are playing competition table tennis in the territory controlled by the ETTU. With its 56 Member Associations, the ETTU is the largest of the 6 Continental Table Tennis Federations recognised by the ITTF. " A pool of 4 Million members creates all kinds of possibilities that you just won't see when your pool is 0.2% that size or a mere 8000 strong.]

You are characterizing the message as negative by selectively focusing on the closing statement out of context of the rest of the blog posting. Obviously there is no point in trying to convince you that this is misleading. So I won't bother with that any more. But for anybody else reading, I encourage you to read the full blog posting and to come to your own conclusion.

Also, as Kagin alluded to in his post, having a ITTF Tour event this year was very much serendipity. We were lucky to have easy/inexpensive access to the required wood floors as well as a venue that has upgraded the lighting to the point where it meets ITTF standards. What are the odds that we have such a fortunate arrangement fall in our laps next year?

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

OK. I'll call him an unpaid or underpaid non-coerced worker then.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

I wouldn't. He has aspirations to become THE top USATT official. Asking him yourself. That's not a typical unpaid or underpaid worker by a long shot. You are putting way too much emphasis on money, Jay. For some people including myself monetary rewards are not all that important when it comes to some personal pursuits.

But he's a long way from reaching that goal. So for now he's unpaid or underpaid.

And none of this is my emphasis anyway. I'm just calling it like it is withing the context of the original discussion. His motivations weren't really the point or issue behind what I've been saying. You may want to make them the issue, but that wasn't my focus. My point, put simply, is that I see little to suggest that he is lazy. And your assertions seem to support that observation as well since you see him as working toward a long term goal.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

On a completely unrelated tangent, do you happen to know or could you find out which pips rubber Megumi Abe uses on her backhand?

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

I only checked her teammate Shigeko Nakamura's racket, who barely lost to Georgina Pota in six games (12-10 in the sixth). She used TSP Curl P4 no sponge and played the same style as Megumi Abe, as well as her two other teammates at the tournament. It's possible that they all have the same coach back home as I am told this was a regional women's team in Japan. It's possible that they all use the same long pips but I am not sure. What I am sure is Megumi Abe was using long pips (as Shigeko Nakamura was) and it's also made by TSP.

The sporting goods industry always make estimates of 12-20 million playing table tennis in the USA every year. That the USATT has only 8,000 members is simply a reflection of the bad marketing job they are doing. Do any of these other associations with big membership numbers gouge their members $50 a year for membership like the USATT does? No way.

But the bigger issue is the ITTF needs the USA market, and the USA table tennis needs to become a player again on the international table tennis scene. With 12-20 million casual players and a great history, it's a tragedy that we've become such a niche sport here.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

The 12-20 million number is not for tournament players. The 300,000 number I gave for Japan is for members of the JTTA. The ETTA number is for tournament players - presumably who must be members of the 56 affiliated associations in order to play in their tournaments. I have no idea what the membership fees are, but I'd guess that they would be smaller since they shouldn't be as important to the associations financial survival.

We can debate why the USATT has only 8,000 members, but the fact remains that our membership and active tournament or league playing base is many times smaller than in Europe, Asia and even parts of South and Central America. USATT/ITTF tournaments have little appeal for the 12-20 million basement/garage/recreational players that the sporting industry sells $5-$40 dollar rackets to in Walmart and big box sporting goods stores. And that fact provides the answer to your question of why we can't easily do what they do.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

This was the ETTA (English TTA) fee structure this year just gone....

Senior Player License £27.00 (Born before 1995) (National Competitions)
Junior Player License £13.50 (Born between 95 & 97) (National Competitions)
Cadet Player License £13.50 (Born in 1998 or later) (National Competitions)
Senior Player Member £6.00 (Born before 1995) (Players playing in local leagues)
Junior Player Member £3.00 (Born between 95 & 97) (Players playing in local leagues)
Cadet Player Member £3.00 (Born in 1998 or later) (Players playing in local leagues)
Associate Member £3.00 (For those players not playing in national or local leagues)

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Here's the link, I believe. Reading the full article does give context. http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis ... -Blog.aspx

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Seems about right. The ETTA will receive a bit more than $4 million in government funding each year for the next four years. That's a bit more than 3 times the entire USATT budget. The financial situations here and "there" are quite different.

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

A majority of players affiliated with national associations never play in tournaments, they play on teams in leagues. In most countries, non-elite players have no direct dealings with their national associations and membership fees are paid through their clubs or leagues.

But back to the topic, this tournament was simply our U.S. Open that we run every year anyway with or without the ITTF. The size of the national association has little bearing on how much work is required and besides we're doing most of the work regardless. Yes the ITTF has extra requirements, but I'm sure that a lot of this is negotiable. The ITTF desperately wants to tap into the U.S. market.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Except that it wasn't.



Correct. But it does have a bearing on how easy it is to run the tournament in that it affects much money you have to hire people to do the work and on how much you must rely on volunteers. Perhaps you didn't read this part of Kagin's post.

"He also said, in observing tournament management in the US, "I'm surprised how much work is done by so few people." (I'm going by memory so those probably aren't his exact words.) This comment really rang true, knowing how much work is done by some people in our association, and also knowing how many people in our association seem to care about table tennis and want things to improve, but don't help do the work required to make things better. When i joined Greg Cox, Mike Cavanaugh, and Kenny Tien in trying to lay down the sponsor advertising decals in the arenas, i'm not sure who among us thought of this as a task we were supposed to be doing."




I'm pretty sure that there isn't much room for negotiation with some of the requirements - such as the wood sub-floors.

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis ... nouncement

_________________
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil