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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 09:02 
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Bad pushing too? Honestly, this sounds horrible.

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.asp ... &tid=34984

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The ball was very hard (dare I say, for the sport's veterans, "Barna hard", a ball I remember very well and with much affection).

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The major variation between the two balls was in ball spin. Using my existing technique (both offensive technique and control technique) and my existing high quality offensive-oriented rubber, the non-celluloid ball had decidedly less spin. My playing partner confirmed this conclusion from a number of playing experiments we performed.

As a rough approximation, I estimated my forehand "loop" had 30% less spin. This difference was evident in the effectiveness of my partner's play, as he was highly proficient in responding to my non-celluloid ball offensive shots and discernibly less so with the celluloid ball. Also, when controlling against the ball ("pushing"), the non-celluloid ball had much less spin, often nospin (employing a technique that produces quality spin with a celluloid ball). With the non-celluloid ball, using my current technique and rubber, I was unable to "loop drive" the ball successfully, as the ball flew off the end of the table by a considerable distance, indicating my ball speed was maintained but not my ball spin, as the reliance on a precise speed/spin ratio is critical at these racket speeds. Not enough time was available for me to attempt to alter my loop drive technique to accommodate the new ball.

[Given that these observations have validity] some interesting thoughts come to mind. Why would there be less spin, given the same player behavior and rubber? One contributing factor may be that the ball is bigger in circumference, thus the turning object is spinning less. Another may be the relative lack of compression of the ball due to its hardness is reducing the rubber/sponge dwell time, resulting in less effect.

[Given that these observations hold for the implemented non-celluloid ball], some very important consequences would ensue in the sport. In effect, the current table tennis rubber/sponge world is celluloid-adapted. A new generation of equipment would arise seeking to produce the playing characteristics desired with the new non-celluloid ball. Secondly, if the ball spin quantities are permanently reduced to the degree represented here, the at-the-table short pips attackers will be back, for it was the great spin enhancement that drove them from the game. Lastly, the defensive capabilities will rise considerably, making for much longer rallies.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 09:56 
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Ouch!! :( :( :(

Do you know which ball it was?

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 10:08 
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All he said was that it wasn't the Double Happiness/Double Fish ball and it was seamless. Very probably it's the same ball "USATT senior official" Kagin Lee was passing around and that Larry Hodges reviewed, which was identified as a seamless Xushaofa ball.

Olsen makes a point to not identify the "USATT senior official" who had the ball. He also stated the ball was labeled three star and according to his information the Double Happiness/Double Fish ball has a seam. He also said the ball has been submitted for authorization.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 10:29 
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Thanks MNNB! :up:

mynamenotbob wrote:
He also said the ball has been submitted for authorization.

This bit worries me the most...it's a sign that the manufacturer thinks it's close-enough, whereas it's obviously not by Donn! :( :( :(

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2014, 10:39 
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There's also the usual claim that this will help defenders, however if we'll have problems getting spin I'd have to question that.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2014, 10:18 
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Surprisingly few comments on Donn Olsen's review of the forthcoming poly ball in the original thread, but the few that have weighed in are important people in table tennis.

Quote:
Coach Carl Danner: Yes, hitting in general might experience a renaissance. Also, China will likely get another boost to its dominance, as its depth and variety of players will permit more rapid adaptation to the new conditions.

Dan Seemiller: I played with the Super Barna plastic ball in the late 70s and it had a uniform hardness and considerably less spin. The only complaint back then was they became shiny real quick. This ball will be better for the sport because of the reduction of spin.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2014, 18:43 
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A few more comments on the original thread now, and Don Olsen explained his reasoning on why the new ball will be better for defensive players.

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I'm assuming the overall game will be slower because of the tremendous value of spin in generating ball speed. If this proves to be true, it will be easier to play defense, at the table and off the table, if the ball speed is less.

Speaking from experience, let me just say this. When I play a slow ball with little spin...

Opponents smack the $#!t out of it!!!

Am I wrong?

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2014, 18:50 
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It's hard to say... but I would certainly enjoy the game a lot less when the spin is significantly reduces... and it's a lot less fun to watch as well. :^)

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2014, 18:59 
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I tried the Palio seamless plastic ball a few months ago and for that ball, I totally agree with what Olsen says. I didn't like that ball at all, and my opponent/loopers didn't like it either. I was hoping the newer versions (with seam?) would be better and more similar to the celluloid ball.

Less speed and spin would probably not be beneficial for most choppers. As it also wouldn't be beneficial for most loopers. It might help LP/SP attackers and inverted hitters though.

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2014, 14:41 
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Quote:
Lastly, the defensive capabilities will rise considerably, making for much longer rallies.


I disagree with that.

Efficient defense needs spin variations and heavy backspin. If both are significantly reduced, the attacking strokes will become faster thus making it even more difficult for the chopper to produce spin and more often the ball will be smashed by the attacker. In short, more speed and shorter rallies to be expected.


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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2014, 16:00 
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Good job I'm switching back to sp's. Sounds like a better match for this plastic ball.

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2014, 18:13 
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I've had the idea for a while that inverted backhand and short pips forehand will be quite viable. I haven't seen anything yet to say that won't be pretty ideal.

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2014, 01:31 
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With all the talks about less spins and such, has anyone tested how much impact the new ball has on side spin around post shots?


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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2014, 02:29 
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From what I've read there is decidedly less sidespin as well.

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2014, 02:35 
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HitHitHit wrote:
With all the talks about less spins and such, has anyone tested how much impact the new ball has on side spin around post shots?


http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/ ... -tt1740678

Take it, try it and share your findings for all.

Thanks.


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