OOAK Table Tennis Forum

As some of you probably have heard, the ITTF is going to be allowing coaching between points starting in late 2016. The first bulletpoint in this press release (http://ittf.com/Press_releases/PR/PR1.asp?id=111) says the following:


I'd be curious to hear what people here think ... and would be especially curious to hear from any of you privy to how this rule was implemented in Germany and what the consequences were. Right now, coaching only takes place between games and during time-outs, as we know, so my question would be what this new rule would result in: there are obviously towel breaks, and players would undoubtedly use these to get a few quick tips, but other than that, wouldn't coaching slow the game down and introduce several other potential issues? Here are my concerns:

- There's no bright-line rule as of now that I'm aware of about how much time a player can take between points (is that right?), and I'm concerned that allowing coaching between points would cause players to dawdle to get tips from their coaches, prompting arguments and debates about how long a player is taking to get back to the table. It seems the ITTF would really need to implement a clear rule to address time between points.

- Even if players didn't leave the table to get advice, coaches could obviously shout things out to players, which is sort of annoying, and it also gives a clear advantage to players-coaches sharing a language that their opponent doesn't speak. Seems kind of silly, chaotic and distracting to have this kind of thing going on.

- We would also start seeing many hand signals. Coaches would probably start signaling in serves sort of like doubles partners do now. This, unfortunately, would lead to a decline in player self-reliance. Imagine a little kid or even a teenager who might have great physical skills but isn't yet able to strategize intelligently and having to look back to the coach between each point to get a serve called in from the sidelines. There's something pathetic about this scenario, and it means that more experienced players will see their experience and savvy partially negated because they'll be playing against a team composed of young legs and old brains.

- Good coaching obviously confers a significant advantage. While this isn't as much of an issue at the professional levels of the game where everyone has a coach, at lower levels, the rule gives an advantage to anyone who can afford to have a coach travel with them and attend tournaments. Just doesn't seem like that's going in the right direction.

So those are my concerns. Some of them might turn out overstated, I'm sure, but I'd be interested in hearing what others think about how this rule will be implemented and how it's already been implemented in German league play.

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I agree completely, I think it's going to be detrimental to the game, for all the reasons you've outlined very well. I'm quite surprised it was voted in!

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I agree also.

Maybe it's just formalising what is already happening. I wish they would allow coaching in tennis to get away from all the secret stuff and the umpire just turns a blind eye.

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Not only being the "ball guy" on ITTF's Equipment Committee, but also referee in the German Bundesliga, let me answer here with my personal observations. It has been tested in all two (lately three) Bundesliga levels of men and women for the last three seasons. At the beginning, the concerns of referees and umpires went more or less in the same direction as you have outlined in your post. It turned out, however, that surprisingly nothing happened which disturbed the game: Coaches were fully aware of this new option (partly we explicitely equipped them with info flyers about this before the match), but were using the option on average only once or twice during a game, especially of course when the game was in a critical stage. Neither me nor those colleagues I was asking have observed that it is used as delaying tactics or any means of being unfair to the opponent. Intentionally kicking the ball towards the coaches' seats was observed as rarely as a level of shouting that would disturb other matches or the general match presentation. As a result, referees were giving mainly positive comments in their reports.
Of course, this experience is only for Germany and the playing culture there, however covering players from several nations.

Thanks for your thoughts Torsten, always appreciated

Although the tests may not have revealed any negative results, that does not mean it's good for the game. What advantages can you see for such a new rule, and do these outweight any potential disadvantages (which may not have been observes in Germany but may happen elsewhere).

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First of all, yes, in other countries the balance sheet of this change is yet to be evaluated. That was also a topic in ITTF's internal discussions for this issue. As substantial advantages I observed the following:

In the Bundesliga, National and International Umpires of Germany are officiating at the table, which means they are normally taking the coaching rules seriously. As a consequence, when drawing yellow or even red cards for illegal advice, there is always space for decisions that may not fit the situation, for example misinterpreting pure encouragement. These uncertainties are now completely avoided. Following from that,
- a coach who was avoiding to just motivate his/her player, afraid of being wrongly punished, will no longer do so, which is good for improving the player's personal self-consciousness and maturity
- some more words and movements by the coach, positively used in close stages of the match, will bring some more positive emotion to the match
- and of course, the umpires can focus a little bit more on the players (gamesmanship. service law etc.) instead of playing hide-and-seek with the coaches

My feeling is that the amount of factual coaching did not increase that much, but only the timing changed a little, and coaches are more relaxed now. Therefore, I am not sure if professional coaches in non-professional tournaments would now become an additional advantage for the rich. They can already now use these professionals between games.

Thanks, Torsten. That's exactly the kind of firsthand experience I was hoping to hear about.

My fears, however, are that (1) people are more tentative to abuse a new rule when it's just recently been introduced and are still feeling their way out, whereas in the future, as they become more comfortable with it, they'll become emboldened, and there will be a race to the bottom, with coaching between points becoming far more common; and (2) while most players/coaches are reasonable, there will always be the ones who are looking to get every possible advantage for themselves, even at the expense of doing things that are plainly contemptible and ridiculous, and a rule like this just opens a whole new avenue of abuse in that respect. And once one player starts doing it, other players are likely to follow suit (just like CHO!ing on every point, which initially was limited to just a few players on really great points but then got spread through imitation of certain players who would start CHO!ing every time they won a point, no matter how). Again, I could be wrong, but this is what I'm concerned about happening.

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IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

Thanks Torsten, I can see the logic behind the decision now, although I also still have concerns of the impact of this, especially at lower level where the effect of a coach can have a greater impact.

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Thanks for your thoughts.

According to tabletennista, this rule has been tested in Germany during the 2011-2012 season, but has not been kept. Is that true ?
The press release somehow let me think that this rule was still currently applied in Germany.

I don't like this rule at all, Table tennis becomes more of a team sport and that I don't like.

In 2011-2012, Germany tested an "extended" version of this rule, where in addition the intervals between game 1 and 2 as well as between game 3 and 4 (if so) were cancelled in order to save match time. The rationale was that not every game needed to be prepared by coaching any more.

This part did not work at all, because it completely disturbed the natural playing cycle for players, coaches, umpires, spectators. Therefore it was cancelled after one season. Only the legalized coaching continued.

BAD RULE.

The rule quite inpracticable to control by the umpire. Bad, messy rule to induce a lot of quarrels with all the players, coaches. umpires.

Igor NOVICK
national umpire.

Just for the sake of a good example, I'd ask ITTF to look more closely into the most respectable and most televised racket sport that LAWN TENNIS -- the players participating in the sport are NOT allowed any coaching communications during an individual match. None of the merest hint or instructive gesture from a coach/advicer is permitted during a tennis match (other than a team Davis Cup match) however long it may last.

I oppose this change, but I've opposed mid-match coaching in any form since I started playing tournaments. Reason? Table tennis has so much deception involved that a coach can have an all-too-significant impact on a match's outcome by helping his player adapt to an otherwise insurmountable technique or tactic.

In a tournament match, "run what you brung" should apply to a player's paddle and also to his brain.

Thanks. I also thought this rule was far too much complicated.

In an earlier post, you said this coaching happens once, maybe twice a game. How does it go ? Coachs talking loudly enough to get heard by their players ? Hand signals ? Another way ?