OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 21 Oct 2018, 08:37


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 12 May 2015, 00:28 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 19:55
Posts: 58
Location: Munich, Germany
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 32 times
Yes, basically these two, and nothing else. And pretty short. For example, if the player seems too far from the table, either the coach just says "closer" - and not "you must play closer to the table...". Or there is a brief hand signal (like pulling something) to express the same. In no case have I, personally, observed talking or hand signals going on for more than 1-2 seconds. In no case have I seen the focus of the opponent being interrupted. Again, just speaking for Germany.


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

PostPosted: 12 May 2015, 00:49 
Offline
Chopoleon Bonaparte
User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 07:21
Posts: 676
Location: New York, New York
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 84 times
Blade: Re-impact Smart
FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm
BH: Spinlord Agenda OX
Torsten wrote:
Again, just speaking for Germany.

Yeah, if I can stereotype here, you Germans are generally much more well-mannered and well-behaved than some of us in the more self-expressive, less restrained Anglophone sphere, especially here in the U.S. In any event, I'll be curious to see what happens with this rule at the international level, where players are more focused on winning at all costs.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 May 2015, 00:55 
Offline
Full member
User avatar

Joined: 04 Feb 2009, 19:26
Posts: 65
Location: France
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Thanks again, Torsten. I'll have to try and watch a full TTBL match (and not just the highlights) and hope to hear some of those instructions.

Anyway, I don't think this new rule a good idea. Too much emphasis on the coach.
Does anyone have the full text of this new rule ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 May 2015, 06:35 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 06:47
Posts: 783
Location: Vienna
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 103 times
Blade: MSP Revolution
FH: RITC Friendship 802 2.2
BH: MSP Diabolic 1.6
well...i also dont think its a good idea objectively, since it puts more emphasis on the coach...however: if the player/his coach speaks a foreign language for the referee, there is no way for the referee to determine whether he is coaching him or just cheering his player on..same counts for hidden gestures/signals..so if this rule has something good, it will create an even playing field.

_________________
Blade: Der-Materialspezialist Deluxe Carbon Forehand RITC Friendship 802 2.2 Backhand Der-Materialspezialist Reflection 0.9


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 May 2015, 00:30 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 11 Apr 2015, 01:07
Posts: 4
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
I think this is a terrible idea. There are many players who like to delay the game with all kinds of gamesmanship if they are on a bad run of points, or if their opponent is a player who likes to play at a quick tempo. This just gives them a valid excuse. I know a number of players who would seek advice at every point interval.

There is also the issue of the overbearing coach with the Junior player, who now will be allowed to browbeat their 'prodigy' at every point. Instead of just being able to wail at them between games as is now the case. Is there a time limit to this between points?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 May 2015, 00:43 
Offline
Chopoleon Bonaparte
User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 07:21
Posts: 676
Location: New York, New York
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 84 times
Blade: Re-impact Smart
FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm
BH: Spinlord Agenda OX
Agree entirely, Shortpips. This is consistent with my point that while most players are reasonable people with decent sportsmanship, there are always the crazies looking for every opportunity to gain an edge and the whacko parents and coaches who'll do the same. These people will use this rule to drag down the level of sportsmanship for everyone.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 May 2015, 16:47 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 32013
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1657 times
Been thanked: 1128 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
This makes me wonder if the ITTF even considers the impact of rule changes at the lower levels...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 May 2015, 16:25 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10824
Location: USA
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 447 times
Blade: Dr N. Barricade
FH: Gambler Reflectoid 1mm
BH: Dawei 388D-1 OX
haggisv wrote:
This makes me wonder if the ITTF even considers the impact of rule changes at the lower levels...

I've never seen evidence that they've ever cared even remotely about how they abuse the game's recreational players.

The ITTF is all about 1) trying to profitably run a professional league, 2) conspiring with manufacturers to squeeze the maximum revenue through equipment bans and rule changes, and 3) manipulating the IOC into the largest payouts possible.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 May 2015, 12:34 
Offline
Bytes worse than his Bark
Bytes worse than his Bark
User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 12:25
Posts: 1221
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 287 times
Blade: OldNittaku Carbon
FH: Evolution FX-P max
BH: Tenergy 05 max
Our district competition (pennants) currently has a local by-law that doesn't allow time-outs. We will probably add another one about no coaching between points when the time comes.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 09:57 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 32013
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1657 times
Been thanked: 1128 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
Did anyone see the US Open tennis women's finals?

This is what Serena said:

Quote:
Serena - “I didn’t get coaching,” “I don’t cheat! I didn’t get coaching. How can you say that? You owe me an apology. I have never cheated in my life!”

“You are attacking my character,” she continued. “You will never ever ever be on another court of mine as long as you live.”

“You stole a point from me; you’re a thief, too,” she insisted.

Serena's Coach - “I’m honest, I was coaching."


These were the violations Serena received:
- First: Serena´s coach giving instructions from the stands, he admitted it later. Warning.
- Second: Serena smashing a racket in frustration. Code violation. One point lost.
- Third: Serena calling Ramos a thief. Code violation. One game lost.

I don't remember this ever happening in TT, and now that coaching in-between points is allowed, it's not going to happen either.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 11:45 
Offline
Bytes worse than his Bark
Bytes worse than his Bark
User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 12:25
Posts: 1221
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 287 times
Blade: OldNittaku Carbon
FH: Evolution FX-P max
BH: Tenergy 05 max
The situations that can occur for between points coaching are not always black and white. There is an umpire's guide that details those situations such as a player kicking a ball back towards their coach's corner etc. It is apparently somewhere here:

http://www.ittf.com/URC/PDF/ITTF_URC_FAQ.pdf

They are not always black and white.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 12:33 
Offline
003 Style Master
003 Style Master
User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2011, 20:23
Posts: 2237
Location: South Australia
Has thanked: 258 times
Been thanked: 270 times
Blade: Donic Waldner Senso V1
FH: Joola Rhyzm 425
BH: Donic Baracuda Big Slam
The coach also said smashing a racquet is not that bad. I disagree. Is it any different to an U13 table tennis player throwing and smashing their bat?

I watched the whole thing and think her behaviour was out of line and got what she deserved.

_________________
Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Joola Rhyzm 425 2.0mm ,BH Donic Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 12:45 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10824
Location: USA
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 447 times
Blade: Dr N. Barricade
FH: Gambler Reflectoid 1mm
BH: Dawei 388D-1 OX
The only thing is if everyone coaches during the game and they never call it, then all of a sudden they do - that's kind of bogus. But her reaction was nuts. Bad calls happen in sports all the time. You move on.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 14:02 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 7053
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 867 times
nathanso wrote:
I oppose this change, but I've opposed mid-match coaching in any form since I started playing tournaments. Reason? Table tennis has so much deception involved that a coach can have an all-too-significant impact on a match's outcome by helping his player adapt to an otherwise insurmountable technique or tactic.

In a tournament match, "run what you brung" should apply to a player's paddle and also to his brain.


Isn't that the whole point of even having a coach, though? :lol:

I wasn't even aware that coaching is now allowed between points. I've never seen anyone confer with a coach other than during times out and in between games. But at those times I see coaches doing exactly the above - helping the player adapt to some situation. No, I can't actually hear what they're saying (it's often in Chinese or Japanese after all), but what else COULD they be saying??

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 14:45 
Offline
Pimple Popper
Pimple Popper
User avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2008, 09:35
Posts: 897
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 39 times
I am a big fan of "the rules are there for a reason". I will follow the rules to a tee - but if the rules say I can coach my players between points, you better believe I'm hollering and yelling and doing what I need to do to motivate my player if I'm in the corner (juniors in particular).

However Serena - it's a big ol snowball. started with the "coaching" and then her emotions got the best of her. I think the big that is (rightfully) being blown up is that if she were a Male player, would the umpire have done the same thing?

Food for thought.

_________________
BACK TO THE OLD(new style)
Dr Neubauer Matador Texa Balsa
BTY Tenergy 80 2.1mm
Dr Neubauer Desperado 2 OX

"I dare you to push long. Go on. Do it. "


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: