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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 15:51 
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I agree Mac should be more forthcoming in answering questions here when he expects his questions answered in a manner he likes. However, I am stopping short of deeming him a troll given that he is only acting in this manner in this one thread, not all over the forum. And unlike a troll, he has established a history (other than in this thread) of being a useful contributing member of the forum over a long period. This thread has obviously entertained many members over a long period and had people thinking about the "philisophical" idea of the earth being flat and how to prove it is not. It becomes quite informative about our world in the end and being in the lounge its the right place for it. So, while there may be some frustration about the way Mac has gone about the topic, he has actually served a useful purpose on posing the question. Is everyone happy with his approach...No! Has Mac actually been offensive directly to anyone...besides being somewhat ignorant..No. Will this thread die down, and come back from time to time...surely Yes. Does it do any damage to the forum...I don't think so. For now, just be tolerant of each other, and Mac please try to read what is asked of you and respond in a thoughtful way...and this thread may continue. ;)

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 16:21 
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There are 800 members or so in the U.K alone of the flat earth society. It is called Feukers I believe - interesting name.

As in the recent video I posted they run awareness campaigns across Britain encouraging people to do their OWN research. Are these people trolls and should they too be stopped for expressing their opinion?


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 17:33 
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mac33 wrote:
I have put at various times a straight edge across the horizon at sea - at all times the horizon has matched perfectly to the straight edge.

Is my straight edge straight,I have not checked.

As for being rude - not in any way. Reborn is one of the few posters on here that have that rare thing - an open mind. I was just asking him for more of direct response that is all.

In the link from Wikipedia I posted - it mentions you can actually see Wick from Buckie - impossible of course on a ball.

Someone calculated you should see some of the hills if you factor in refraction.

Refraction meaning a mirage. Yes,the only way you should be able to see Wick and its hills beyond from Buckie were the earth a ball - would be if what you're seeing is a mirage - correct.

Just like with the Chicago skyline when viewed the 60 miles across the lake. The official reason you can see it - it's a bending of light,a mirage in other words.


Even without diffraction you should still see (on a clear day) the tops of the 2000 foot peaks around - what was it - er, Wick from the other place even 63 miles away. With diffraction you just see more of them. The calculations Flat Earthers use to calculate what they think should be hidden are wrong - the "drop" doesn't hide anything. It's the hidden height that does. DO click on that drawing to enlarge, please...

Attachment:
HorizonHidden.jpg
HorizonHidden.jpg [ 55.7 KiB | Viewed 723 times ]


You of course, don't see the bottoms. Speaking of the Chicago skyline - remember this? :lol: From 40 miles away.

Attachment:
FlatEarthNonsense1.jpg
FlatEarthNonsense1.jpg [ 55.8 KiB | Viewed 723 times ]


Yeah, the bottom of the buildings are hidden. As expected. I don't care how big a telescope you have, that photo clearly shows that the horizon is in the way. This photo was TAKEN BY FLAT EARTHERS, not by NASA.

As far as your straight edge is concerned - the point is, there's no way you can tell if it's flat with the Mark One Eyeball. Same with the horizon. It LOOKS flat, but it isn't, because you don't have micrometer eyes.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 17:42 
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mac33 wrote:
There are 800 members or so in the U.K alone of the flat earth society. It is called Feukers I believe - interesting name.

As in the recent video I posted they run awareness campaigns across Britain encouraging people to do their OWN research. Are these people trolls and should they too be stopped for expressing their opinion?


No one ever said that. We simply point out that their opinions are half-baked and their assertions are wrong as a result. And the videos they post don't prove anything, it's just "their opinion" (which is, of course, wrong :lol: ) and quite comical in parts. Doesn't mean they should stop making videos and posting them.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 18:57 
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mac33 wrote:
I have put at various times a straight edge across the horizon at sea - at all times the horizon has matched perfectly to the straight edge.

Is my straight edge straight,I have not checked.

Okay mac, thanks for answering the question. I appreciate your response.

Now we need to take this to its logical next step. If you haven't checked your straight edge, how do you know it's straight? You don't! You keep saying things like "at all times the horizon has matched perfectly to the straight edge" but you don't know if your edge is straight. Perhaps the horizon is "matched perfectly" to your curved edge. If you don't check the tool you're using then your results are meaningless. Do you understand that? Do you accept it?

There are also a load of other questions which follow on from your claim. How are you using your edge? Are you holding it by hand? How do you know you're holding it level (flat)? If you're just lining it up with the horizon, then you may be lining it up with something which is at an angle. How do you ensure you're not introducing an error into your "logical" proof? Just looking at something isn't proving anything. You have to have controls to eliminate errors. How do you do that?

mac33 wrote:
In the link from Wikipedia I posted - it mentions you can actually see Wick from Buckie - impossible of course on a ball.

Someone calculated you should see some of the hills if you factor in refraction.

Refraction meaning a mirage.


Two things. 1. You either didn't read or understand the post. It was pointed out very clearly there are two parts to the answer:
Quote:
OK, so we plug in 63 miles.

Hidden= 1734.47 Feet (20813.62 Inches)
Refracted Hidden= 1431.19 Feet (17174.23 Inches)
Without taking refraction into account, the top of the hills would be visible across that distance. With refraction, an additional 500 feet can be seen.

2. Refraction does not mean a mirage.

Image
This is refraction, and you experience it all the time. In the real world, light bends when it passes through the medium of the atmosphere. Mirages are just one of many, many examples of the bending of light. The fact that people see mirages doesn't mean that refraction cannot be understood, measured and allowed for. When looking at objects over a distance, refraction alters what is visible. The fact that something is visible doesn't automatically mean the surface is flat.


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 18:58 
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From the movie Chicago



"Don't shoot, I am alone," a husband pleads with his wife after she catches him in bed with two naked women.

"But I can see two women," she objects.

"Don't believe what you see," he instructs her. "Believe what I tell you."

The wife shoots her husband in this scene from the 2002 movie musical "Chicago". But the show is dedicated to the cynical premise that the public is not so astute.


Sums up this thread well.

Do not believe what you see.


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 19:05 
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If you don't believe what you see, how are you going to "do your own research"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The point is, you have to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SEEING. Do you, really, when you claim the horizon is "straight"? I'd ask - HOW STRAIGHT DO YOU THINK IT REALLY IS? Might I suggest that you're not believing those photos taken by the flat earthers in a boat that show the lower parts of the buildings on the Chicago skyline are hidden behind the horizon, and therefore are not believing your own eyes? :lol: The problem isn't that you can see the buildings at all, the problem is that you CLAIM, using BAD ASSUMPTIONS, BAD MATH, and BAD GEOMETRY, that you shouldn't be able to see those buildings at all if the Earth is a sphere, while in actual fact, you SHOULD be able to see the upper portions of the buildings 40 nautical miles away if the Earth is a sphere. Where do all these BAD ASSUMPTIONS, BAD MATH, and BAD GEOMETRY come from? Other flat earthers. By way of YouTube.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 21:51 
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mac33 wrote:
From the movie Chicago



"Don't shoot, I am alone," a husband pleads with his wife after she catches him in bed with two naked women.

"But I can see two women," she objects.

"Don't believe what you see," he instructs her. "Believe what I tell you."

The wife shoots her husband in this scene from the 2002 movie musical "Chicago". But the show is dedicated to the cynical premise that the public is not so astute.


Sums up this thread well.

Do not believe what you see.

Lovely post. Doesn't address a single question that's been asked. Why is that?

And if anyone is not believing what they see, it's you.

Because you love YouTube so much, watch this and then tell us all what you see:



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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2018, 01:36 
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Heh... All the evidence we see around us says the Earth is a sphere. He's telling us the Earth is flat. So we're supposed to believe what he says rather than what we see all around us, I suppose...

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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2018, 02:21 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Heh... All the evidence we see around us says the Earth is a sphere. He's telling us the Earth is flat. So we're supposed to believe what he says rather than what we see all around us, I suppose...

Iskandar


The only way Mac will ever admit here that the earth is a sphere is if someone can take him to the moon and show him the earth from that distance, and even then he may still argue all he sees is a disc :lol: Perhaps if you could orbit the earth while at moon distance and let Mac keep his eyes on it the entire time as the orbit tracks its passes around earth to show all angles and perspectives...maybe, just maybe he'll start to agree. Short of this, I don't think there is any changing the mind of someone who won't see the objectivity of the issue.

Yes Mac, I have an open mind, and I watched a lot of stuff over the past couple of years to see what's being put out there. And as with Iskander et al here, I came to the same conclusion. The flat earthers present what "evidence" they can find that suggests the globe earth calculations are flawed and emphasise those things in giant bright lights, while ignoring and shadowing anything to the contrary. Its an interesting subject for sure...and it presents challenges for us meek men who cannot leave the planet and view it from afar to find ways to understand what the scientists present to prove the shape of our home. Some of the science is beyond me, I admit. But enough of it is within my grasp to look at it clearly for what it is. Sensible. The Buckle to Wick thing for example makes perfect sense to see mountains when proper and precise calculations are done to show its 53 miles and there's up to 700 feet of mountain that can be seen from the proper height of eye. Same goes for the Chicago buiidings. But the flat earth guys try to "sell" altered calculations that conveniently ignore that only a portion of something is being seen over the horizon and the height of eye is 5' or 6' or 50' which changes things drastically from plugging in 0'.

My open mind has let both sides in...and I'm not the only one here who has. Iskander, Birdchamboi and many others have considered things you have said and claims and video you've presented and then found ways to refute those things with good conscience...not flatly out of hand. That shows they've had open minds and good spirit to think about the issue and treat it seriously. I think the evidence falls strongly on the side of a globe earth, having approached the issue for a long time now with an open mind. It's been a fun journey, and one that I will continue to enjoy seeing people try to meet the challenge of proving in their own unique ways. Unfortunately, I have yet to see real hard evidence to the contrary that is not watered down with rhetoric, conspiracy theory (yes I know there are real conspiracies in this world) and mispresented facts or worse just untested opinions, in attempts to actually bolster its value when all it does is reveal the shortcomings of the claims.

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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2018, 05:39 
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DEATH IS NOTHING TO US ....

Quote:
Epicurus explicitly warned against overindulgence because it often leads to pain. For instance, Epicurus warned against pursuing love too ardently. He defended friendships as ramparts for pleasure and denied them any inherent worth.[25] He also believed, contrary to Aristotle,[26] that death was not to be feared. When a man dies, he does not feel the pain of death because he no longer is and therefore feels nothing. Therefore, as Epicurus famously said,

-- "Death is nothing to us. When we exist, death is not; and when death exists, we are not."

All sensation and consciousness ends with death and therefore in death there is neither pleasure nor pain. The fear of death arises from the belief that in death, there is awareness.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus# ... and_ethics


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 13:03 
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Makes sense... :lol:

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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2018, 02:56 
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this is a fun video, mainly due to the accent! Maybe there are a large proportion of Scottish flat earth believers. Not necessarily coincidental, Scotland has the highest % alcohol consumption in the UK.


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2018, 05:28 
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I watched that a few weeks ago,please do not steal my work!

At the 6minute mark superstar footballer Leigh Griffiths is driving to the stadium - is then asked for his take on the flat earth. His facial expressions are pretty funny when confronted by the 'truth' for the very first time.

The first young guy working at the canteen was your usual head in the sand guy - very much a sheep.


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2018, 05:42 
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mac33 wrote:
I watched that a few weeks ago,please do not steal my work!

At the 6minute mark superstar footballer Leigh Griffiths is driving to the stadium - is then asked for his take on the flat earth. His facial expressions are pretty funny when confronted by the 'truth' for the very first time.

The first young guy working at the canteen was your usual head in the sand guy - very much a sheep.


I promise not to steal your work; and believe me, I don't know what you watch - your tin foil hat keeps my thought waves at bay!

I think Leigh Griffiths is at the 3 minute mark, and he is wondering how quickly he can get away from the interviewer, and if he is dangerous...

Scotland has many sheep.


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