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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 16:17 
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mac33 wrote:
And then you get a telescope and the bottom of the ship will come back in to view showing its NOT dropping over any curvature. Remember water / the oceans do not curve.

Why do you insist on posting such bull***t. You know that's not true. You cannot demonstrate this idiotic proposition. For crying out loud, sailors have used the term "hull down" for hundreds of years; armed with a telescope, a sailor in the cross-trees would be able to call a ship "hull down" long before they could see the ship to the water line. Stop insulting us with your idiocy.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 17:37 
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mac33 wrote:
Put a ruler across the horizon and there's no fall off or drop.


Again, that's how it should be at or near surface level. The angle of view is miniscule and the distance to the horizon is relatively short. You need elevation, and lots of it, before you can begin to see the shape (curvature) of the earth. The distance to the horizon increases with elevation.

But you can see the effects of the curvature in many other ways at surface level, such as the ship example.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 17:57 
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Dusty054 wrote:
mac33 wrote:
Put a ruler across the horizon and there's no fall off or drop.


Again, that's how it should be at or near surface level. The angle of view is miniscule and the distance to the horizon is relatively short. You need elevation, and lots of it, before you can begin to see the shape (curvature) of the earth. The distance to the horizon increases with elevation.

But you can see the effects of the curvature in many other ways at surface level, such as the ship example.

Brace yourself for the insane claim: if the earth was curved, the water would fall off!


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 01:49 
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Actually, Mac's ruler might be just as curved as his horizon. Unless he's got a multi-thousand dollar specially made and calibrated ruler, he can't know that the ruler isn't actually bent by a few microns... :lol: I'll bet he's never actually tried this himself in any case, he's probably parroting something he came across in some video. As that article he posted mentioned, "do your own research" usually means watching more flat earth videos.. :lol:

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 20:02 
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here is one for you @macc33 :lol:

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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 04:02 
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A great example of a self evident truth - go to the beach and verify for yourself the horizon is always flat.

I was watching the real estate show Escape To The Country last night. They had a couple looking at houses in England. They were taken to of the Worcester hills where a plague sits at the peak.

The host of the show was showing the couple the 360 degree uninterrupted views.

You could see for perhaps 30 miles in every direction,possibly a whole lot more.

The horizon was flat all the way around.

Now were you to live in that part of the world, that would be another great example of a self evident truth.

There are no self evident examples showing curvature of the earth.

We have only their computer generated images etc,etc.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 08:27 
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Huh? Something’s not right here.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 09:55 
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Lets see, at 3o miles, lets say you can see a 60 mile wide horizon. (about 300,000 feet) The error from a straight horizon would be about 240 feet. 140 feet on each end of the line. That's about 1/2000 error from a straight line. Your eye can not detect that error. That's why it looks flat.


Mac continues to ignore all explanations. He either likes to jerk peoples chains or is the most ignorant person I ever met.


Mac, you say for people to try the telescope thing. Well, I have. I lived near the shore 20 years ago. There was an island 12 miles out. Lots of boats fished there. With the telescope, small boats would disappear before they got to the island. I could not see the houses on the island with the telescope. When I took my boat out there, the house roofs would "start" to appear at about 7 miles.


Why don't you borrow a telescope and try it yourself? Afraid you will prove yourself wrong?


Please explain the picture of three boats above in this thread.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 10:24 
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hookshot wrote:
Lets see, at 3o miles, lets say you can see a 60 mile wide horizon. (about 300,000 feet) The error from a straight horizon would be about 240 feet. 140 feet on each end of the line. That's about 1/2000 error from a straight line. Your eye can not detect that error. That's why it looks flat.


Mac continues to ignore all explanations. He either likes to jerk peoples chains or is the most ignorant person I ever met.


Mac, you say for people to try the telescope thing. Well, I have. I lived near the shore 20 years ago. There was an island 12 miles out. Lots of boats fished there. With the telescope, small boats would disappear before they got to the island. I could not see the houses on the island with the telescope. When I took my boat out there, the house roofs would "start" to appear at about 7 miles.


Why don't you borrow a telescope and try it yourself? Afraid you will prove yourself wrong?


Please explain the picture of three boats above in this thread.
Mac never, ever, ever responds directly to challenges to his thinking. The three boats picture is a perfect example - the evidence is in front of his eyes but he doesn't comment, doesn't explain how it's possible if the earth is flat, doesn't attempt to answer how sailors for hundreds of years have known this reality. In short, he doesn't answer because he can't answer. All he can do is keep going back to "self evident" truths.

I asked him to explain the science behind looking in a mirror, but he's not going to attempt that either. There are some things that are "self evident" when he looks in a mirror, but he simply doesn't get that his eyes lie to him all the time. Instead he posts nonsense suggesting that the water would drain out of a lake if the earth was curved.

I actually thought there was a rule on this forum about trolling. Perhaps I was wrong.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 10:41 
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It is approaching trolling. Partly why I posted. If his line continues, I may declare he is just jerking peoples chains for his own humor. The 44 is cocked. I have a limit and he is approaching it.

He has been given enough proof against a flat earth and he just ignores it.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 12:00 
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hookshot wrote:
It is approaching trolling. Partly why I posted. If his line continues, I may declare he is just jerking peoples chains for his own humor. The 44 is cocked. I have a limit and he is approaching it.

He has been given enough proof against a flat earth and he just ignores it.

I think there is a way of determining if mac33 is a troll. Given one of two possibilities for mac: 1. he is a genuine flat earther, or 2. he is a troll.

If he's nothing more than a troll, of course he'll continue to ignore any proposed arguments. A troll wouldn't believe the earth is flat and have no interest in investigating anything pro or con his assertions. All a troll is interested in is keeping people arguing.

But if mac33 is a genuine flat earther, then it should be about proving his argument and disproving the arguments of his opponents. Early on in the thread, mac posted things which were supposed to prove his point, e.g. horizons with lines drawn across them to show they're flat. But he has never (as far as I can recall) taken any steps to disprove arguments against his propostions, e.g. with the Stephen Hawking clip very clearly showing the helicopter disappearing below the horizon, he has never explained how this would be possible if the earth is flat.

Nowadays, mac33 simply comes here and repeats the same old same old. Simply repeating ad nauseum that it's "self-evident" is not an argument. After all, an "argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says." On this basis, it becomes apparent that mac has no interest in doing anything other than getting a reaction, i.e. trolling. The way to prove he's not a troll is for him to engage in genuine argument, and actually responding to the criticisms. For example, why does the helicopter disappear below the horizon? Why is the ship furthest from the camera not visible at the waterline regardless of how much magnification he applies to the picture?

If mac33 is a genuine flat earther, it's unlikely he'll ever change his already closed mind. However, he should at least make direct answers to questions he's asked. If he doesn't, he's a troll.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 12:25 
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Well said. :rofl:

His lack of logic, math or serious investigation will be his downfall.

I bet he uses GPS. The math used in that alone destroys his flat earth.

He should study astronomy. :)


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 14:54 
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I do think he's a genuine flat Earther, and he isn't faking (though he thinks everyone else is). He's sincere. Unfortunately, like pretty much all other flat Earthers, he's not very good at arguing, since all their arguments defy logic, and the only way for them to continue believing what they believe is to fool themselves and pretend that they are arguing when what they really are doing is ignoring sound arguments by being evasive. Yes, trying to argue with them is like hitting your head against a brick wall, you will never get anywhere. Still, it needs to be done, what with the state of the world - a LOT of people now buy into conspiracy theories and all this nonsense, the flat earth is just one example, and relatively harmless one at that. I think the real value of arguing with them isn't that you'd ever convince them (they'll just think that, like Stephen Hawking, you belong to the Illuminati and are lying :lol: ) but there are lots of people out there (even on this forum - go back a dozen pages on this thread) who aren't science-savvy and might actually think they "have a point", until shown otherwise. Still, I think Mac has come to the end of his rope.. he's reduced to posting these one or two sentence "facts" in response to the overwhelming evidence that's been posted of a spherical Earth.

If you want to see a really long running example of "flattards" keeping an "argument" (if you can call it that) going for ever, see the live chat on that "Live Launch" streaming video:



Every time I take a peek at this (there are often interesting things going on, such as SpaceX boosters landing) there are a few "flattards" there trying to convince everyone it's a hoax. Been going on for years if I'm not mistaken.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 16:45 
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I posted the Stephen Hawking clip with the helicopter dropping 24 feet below the horizon at a 6 mile distance as evidence of the lies we are being told.

If the water does drop 24 feet from that 6 mile distance ( it's spot on with the formula for calculating curvature were the earth a 25000 mile ball) then looking at the horizon at the beach,you should also see a 24 feet drop off looking 6 miles to the right and left. You do not - so I can only conclude his experiment was a con.

As to the claim I'm a troll - flat earth is the biggest of all the conspiracies at the moment on the net.

Type flat earth video in to google and there a like a million plus of them!

When you see a ship disappearing over the horizon - it's perspective and field of vision.

Lay a towel on a flat ground and walk away. After a short distance it will start to disappear.


The true method of knowledge is experiment.

- William Blake


Last edited by mac33 on 11 Jun 2018, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 16:55 
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Proof too the earth does not spin.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... whYjmXUBcw


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