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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013, 10:32 
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I can't think of a better way start off the LP Pushblocking section then with a thread on pushblocking philosophy. The premise, the yin-yang, the signifigance, the bushido code, the zen, the gestault...what ever you want to call it. Pushblocking like any art or martial art requires understanding and logic as to why this style should exist and how to view scenerios from a pushblocker perspective. We need to estabilsh the pushblocking mentality before moving on to other related areas like pushblocking tactics and pushblocking equipment.

So if there are any pushblockers out there that would like to comment on their philosophy of pushblocking, please ramble away!

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013, 12:27 
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The laws of bh lp pushblocking:

1. Let your opponent make the mistake.
2. Hold back on your own attacks to prevent unforced errors.
3. Exploit your opponents weakness while covering up your own weaknesses.
4. Do not use conventional warefare ,err, tactics...use pushblocking/gorilla tactics that may not look attarctive.
5. Stand your ground upfront and use your bh! Use it to cover up your fh corner because it is faster and safer.
6. The fh corner blindspot/weakness is the centerpiece of the pushblocking style. What others think is the weakness is in fact your strength.
7. Do use the pips side for serves! Don't hide it or save it for later because it might be too late and this is compensates for the fh.

8. You must twiddle and use the inverted side, at least for pushes and quick blocks.
9. Use a limited variety of strokes to reduce unforced errors.
10. Your opponent may not hit the ball for a winner next time because of the lps unpredictability/deception so do go back to the same spot or repeat tactics.

Remember guys, I'm a rec player so this is all I know and it works for me but not against the higher class guys.
Anyone want to add or edit this because I'm starting to get specific and into skills and strokes.
Please feel free to expand upon these points.

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013, 12:46 
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Personally guys, even though I can and will play as a chopper and have been taught by a chopper pro from the Domican Republic, I prefer to play as a pushblocker because I think that my injuries will be less just by holding the blade with my backhand and bing passive. I think that the more you use the wrist to loop AND to chop, that you are asking for trouble down the road. One of the other benefits of playing as a pushblocker is that it is efficient. You get alot by not doing too much, although you need quick blocking reflexes, kinda like a goalie.

Also it's a numbers game...the number of unforced errors versus winners and the number of hours you have to practice looping or becoming more athletic to be a solid attacker using conventional eqipment. The worst advice I received was from a friend that said the most important stroke was the loop...this, after 10 years of lps, could be farther from the case. However if you do posses the ability to move and to use the fh, then you would make a superior pushblocker eg Robert S. of the US. But for me, I'm biased on being passive because when it gets too aggressive then your getting closer to conventional play and the mentality of attacking and I cant subscribe to that. Being a pushblocker for me implies being passive!

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013, 14:06 
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G'day timeout

back when I experimented with the LP push/blocking style, general things for me were:

1) it's not about looking good, but making your opponent look bad

2) try to encourage your opponent's illusion that he is simply making silly errors and not because he has no idea how to read the spin coming back at him. So, every time he misses an attack and he complains about making simple mistakes, just nod your head sympathetically and say something like "yeah, you really should be making those shots! I guess I'm just lucky today"

more specifically, I agree it is useful to know how to twiddle (this really adds to the deception), also, try to hit the ball off the bounce 90% of the time.

I also did attack occasionally (basically a flat hit) with the LP which I found effective - though maybe that's not a "pure" push/blocker style.

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013, 18:29 
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Not that I'm any great player, but for me the push/block strategy varies greatly depending on the type of opponent. Here are some general ideas.

Against an all out looper, blocking short is paramount.

Against a careful all-rounder, spin variations and ball placement are key. I'm pretty aggressive against players that try a no-spin game on me. When I used to to be more passive, I had problems with no-spinners.

Against choppers that mainly chop, wear them out and keep bumping it back. They will miss before you do.

Against everyone, always look to jam them and/or keep them moving. Power alleys are really bad to hit to. Don't forget to regularly change the depth.

I used to rely almost 100% on opponent's mistakes, but I'm not consistent enough to make that work against players who aren't all out attackers, so I've worked hard on improving my smashing and now I get a lot of points by pouncing on loose balls.

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PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013, 17:35 
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Great Tips MNNB! Thanks for your insights.

I figure that in the end when we are all old and grey, and weak with limited mobility, that the pushblocker style of play would be the only feasible style because physically, you can't loop or chop anymore. So you might as well develop the pb game right now and be ahead of the game, but this is just a thought!

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 13:48 
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timeout wrote:
The laws of bh lp pushblocking:

1. Let your opponent make the mistake.
2. Hold back on your own attacks to prevent unforced errors.
3. Exploit your opponents weakness while covering up your own weaknesses.
4. Do not use conventional warefare ,err, tactics...use pushblocking/gorilla tactics that may not look attarctive.
5. Stand your ground upfront and use your bh! Use it to cover up your fh corner because it is faster and safer.
6. The fh corner blindspot/weakness is the centerpiece of the pushblocking style. What others think is the weakness is in fact your strength.
7. Do use the pips side for serves! Don't hide it or save it for later because it might be too late and this is compensates for the fh.

8. You must twiddle and use the inverted side, at least for pushes and quick blocks.
9. Use a limited variety of strokes to reduce unforced errors.
10. Your opponent may not hit the ball for a winner next time because of the lps unpredictability/deception so do go back to the same spot or repeat tactics.

Remember guys, I'm a rec player so this is all I know and it works for me but not against the higher class guys.
Anyone want to add or edit this because I'm starting to get specific and into skills and strokes.
Please feel free to expand upon these points.


Interesting list of "rules" there Timeout.

Personally, I break most of them :P :lol: And to be a good pushblocker and rising to a decent level you pretty much need to, otherwise it leaves our game too one dimensional (as Pushblocker himself has realised).

So where do I break these rules?

First off, I attack from my FH inverted wherever its safely possible. And by this I mean I aim to get returns to my FH (or run around my BH against certain style players) and blast them away. I will generally only do this a. where time permits and b. when their is a high % shot (defining high % however is of course relative to level).

Oh and I don't "let the opponent make the mistake", I aim to force them into error. This is done by using stroke choice, surprise elements and techniques you find are successful through the course of a game/match. (What works on one doesn't always work on another). Part of "making them make the mistake" is also to allow them to attack....but not always with the hope the miss. Guys I play don't miss that much anyway. The idea is to let them attack within your ability to return (and for the purposes of this section we'll say LP block or chop-block, but it equally applies to inverted). By doing this you have a high % of the return being successful and also sending back a nasty ball to deal with using their own attack speed and spin. It takes some getting used to, and some "balls" to let them attack you of course, but when done right, its a very viable element of game strategy.

On the twiddling rule...sorry, don't do that besides on serve. First of all, I am a BH LP specialist and a handy FH inverted hitter. My forte` is not the reverse of either. If you're good at playing both rubbers both sides, great. But I have way too much difference in power and reaction of between my BH and FH rubbers to risk employing them that way. The only time I twiddle is on serve, where I use inverted on BH serve, which is probably over 50% of my serves. If a ball is there to smash on the BH, the pips do the work!

I think what you are saying in rule 6 is the chicken-wing is king. If so, totally agree! The number of winners I get from having no crossover point when reacting to a fast drive to my FH, where my pips send back a wicked ball is incredible. Its like the pips take on a totally different power. I wouldn't even call it a chicken-wing really as there is no bend to the elbow in this shot. The arm outstretches with bat having pips facing ball and angled back usually to the FH or centre table. Not many people return the ball that comes back to them off this (and I think its usually because its a fast block with wicked reversal and they aren't ready for it having just completed their swing).

Rule 7 I agree with too. There is a lot to be gained from serving with pips. Variation to the serve you make from inverted alone makes it worthwhile! But then you can play with subtle spin by how you strike the ball, and its not easy for the opponent to discern.

On MNNB's point of keeping the blocks short, I half agree :lol: In fact, variation is again key here. To start with, as I said I aim to let them attack to get the spin and speed I want to work with. But second, unless they are very high level (circa 2300-2400US let's say), then a fast deep push or block that makes them stretch will result in either a missed loop, or a loop you can be in control of to turn it nasty. Of course you need to have the blocking ability built up to deal with this if the do return it, but its fairly relative to the guy's looping skill to your blocking skill. (ie. If he is 1200US and you block at that level, a ball pushed deep and wide to his FH that takes him slightly off guard is not too different to a 2000US blocker doing that to the same level looper - cos the push or block should be executed that much better and the skill to re-block if the looper does land his loop will also be there). I hope this makes sense.

The last thing I'd address is your rule 9. I'd say this is good advice for a lower level player, but as level goes north of say 1500-1600US, then the range of shots needs to expand quickly. This comes back to the one dimensional game being too easy for anyone with some developed skill to adjust to and begin killing. Variation and consistency are king in this game. If you haven't developed wide consistency, by all means keep to a well worn track that keeps you in the point. But eventually the players you meet will eat that up. By that stage, you need to have a range of shot selections and placements to perform that will trouble the particular opponents weaknesses.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 14:14 
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First of all Reb, I was just making up stuff just for the hell of it :D

I mean, there were all these other new posts from the other mods, it was like, man, I gotta do something and get off my a$$...

So glad you took over Reb!

Now to get back to reading your above post.

Edit- Just wanted to add that these rules I made up are largely based on my understanding of pushblocker's tactics and strategy,

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 14:42 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
On MNNB's point of keeping the blocks short, I half agree In fact, variation is again key here. To start with, as I said I aim to let them attack to get the spin and speed I want to work with. But second, unless they are very high level (circa 2300-2400US let's say), then a fast deep push or block that makes them stretch will result in either a missed loop, or a loop you can be in control of to turn it nasty. Of course you need to have the blocking ability built up to deal with this if the do return it, but its fairly relative to the guy's looping skill to your blocking skill. (ie. If he is 1200US and you block at that level, a ball pushed deep and wide to his FH that takes him slightly off guard is not too different to a 2000US blocker doing that to the same level looper - cos the push or block should be executed that much better and the skill to re-block if the looper does land his loop will also be there). I hope this makes sense.

That's just a brief overview of a basic strategy that works with slow equipment to some degree. Of course, there's more to it. You want to vary the placement and when you do give them a fast, deep ball, make sure they are jammed or have to hit it on the run. This is particularly important if they loop very hard and just rip it past you. If they're more of a spinner, I'm a bit less concerned about keeping it short.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2013, 17:33 
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timeout wrote:
First of all Reb, I was just making up stuff just for the hell of it :D

I mean, there were all these other new posts from the other mods, it was like, man, I gotta do something and get off my a$$...

So glad you took over Reb!

Now to get back to reading your above post.

Edit- Just wanted to add that these rules I made up are largely based on my understanding of pushblocker's tactics and strategy,


Its all cool Timeout, this is a good topic and everyone's philosophy will vary according to level, opponent style and the like. I was just putting my spin on things and adding to what you started. Don't worry, you've done a good job mate! :up: And happy to be of service in helping take some weight ;)

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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2013, 02:29 
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There are different pushblocking philosophies.. Keeping returns short is one of them but that's not mine.. I actually play most of my pushes intentionally long and as fast as I can as I want to control the table with my pushes. I only use the blocking part of my game to force my opponents to push or chop with underspin and then my real strength (aggressive pushing) comes into play and by placing the ball in uncomfortable spots for my opponents, I either produce direct points or attackable balls that I can put away.. The only problem with my style is that it does not work against players who do not produce enough spin as lack of opponents spin will result in lack of control on my part and I will miss shots that I usuually make.

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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2013, 11:45 
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Pushblocker wrote:
There are different pushblocking philosophies.. Keeping returns short is one of them but that's not mine.. I actually play most of my pushes intentionally long and as fast as I can as I want to control the table with my pushes.


I would like to incorporate a fast LP push close to the table into my game - but still have little idea of the technique behind this.

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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2013, 13:09 
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poor_knight wrote:
Pushblocker wrote:
There are different pushblocking philosophies.. Keeping returns short is one of them but that's not mine.. I actually play most of my pushes intentionally long and as fast as I can as I want to control the table with my pushes.


I would like to incorporate a fast LP push close to the table into my game - but still have little idea of the technique behind this.


This makes so much sense as to why the Firewall Plus is Pushblocker's blade!

The emphasis is on the "push" as oppose to the "block."

Maybe I should call myself a Blockpusher instead. :lol:

That a faster blade makes a good pushblocking blade really opens up the list of blades that can be used which include faster more offensive blades which can simultaneously block well enough...

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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2013, 13:33 
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Pushblocker wrote:
There are different pushblocking philosophies.. Keeping returns short is one of them but that's not mine.. I actually play most of my pushes intentionally long and as fast as I can as I want to control the table with my pushes. I only use the blocking part of my game to force my opponents to push or chop with underspin and then my real strength (aggressive pushing) comes into play and by placing the ball in uncomfortable spots for my opponents, I either produce direct points or attackable balls that I can put away.. The only problem with my style is that it does not work against players who do not produce enough spin as lack of opponents spin will result in lack of control on my part and I will miss shots that I usuually make.


Yep, I would definitely concur with all of that in my playing philosophy too :up:

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2013, 20:57 
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timeout wrote:
poor_knight wrote:
Pushblocker wrote:
There are different pushblocking philosophies.. Keeping returns short is one of them but that's not mine.. I actually play most of my pushes intentionally long and as fast as I can as I want to control the table with my pushes.


I would like to incorporate a fast LP push close to the table into my game - but still have little idea of the technique behind this.


This makes so much sense as to why the Firewall Plus is Pushblocker's blade!

The emphasis is on the "push" as oppose to the "block."

Maybe I should call myself a Blockpusher instead. :lol:

That a faster blade makes a good pushblocking blade really opens up the list of blades that can be used which include faster more offensive blades which can simultaneously block well enough...

My strength is the push rather than the block.. I just use the block to get underspin on the ball (force the opponents to push or chop) and then I can take over the rally and control the table as I need underspin on the ball to be able to be aggressive.. The resulting topspin from my "off the bounce" push is very uncomfortable for opponents and it puts them into defence while I'm able to control the angles and therefore the table.

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