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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 23:48 
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Its not the slowing down that is necessarily the problem - rather, it is getting the ball on the table. For reasons discussed above, low friction rubber such as anti or OX (or soft sponge) LP is difficult to block consistently with against deep strong shots.

>My bad. Anti is counter intuitive. I thought the thicker sponge would help but it serves to slow down shots which doesn’t help at all.

Anti is extremely easy for a half decent player to play against and it is difficult to for the user to be pro-active with it. I have used Feint soft and it is too dead IMO.

>I’ll take your advice here. I haven’t purchased anything in a while because I’ve hit the wall …just not sure 100% about what to get or what path to take…compared to ox lp feint soft 1.5 is quite fast and more higher throwing for active shots imo but I trust your judgement here.

The PH BH flat hit you describe sounds like a darned good shot. SP or inverted with make returning it somewhat easier and so will practicing more - especially stuff like high speed random multi-ball drills. However, at the end of the day, some shots are simply tough to deal with and so it might be wise to consider prevention rather than cure. What are the shots you are hitting to him that allow him to get such BHs in? Are you being too passive? Could it be that he is experienced and finds playing against OX fairly easy? etc A video would make the task of responding to this problem much easier!

>Its exactly what you said. It doesn’t matter if its delivered from a SH or a PH. It’s a strong shot lots of speed too much for my equipment to deal with and causes an unexpected short recoil dead ball. More experience and practice will help I’m sure. And you’re correct some shots are just winners for the other guy.

About being passive and not pressuring him, yes, I’m guilty of that as well. Basically it was me using PB’s game and pushing the ball moderately off his starting loops. Anything short, although he was good at at longer placed balls too, was flat hit or loop killed with a low to high stroke. Bascially the guy was too good but I one thing I might add to this is that most of these guys who are better and find a way to beat pips player don’t actually play them to often. Theses kinds are players are just very well grounded in proper inverted strokes and are experienced enough to look for holes in my game to exploit. The others that don’t have such skills just fall apart but playing against pip players is still rare up in my neck of the woods.

Apparently theres a video of me floating around the net at this Chinese pp/dance club. The guy that I was playing actually hit a short pips smash into my lazy ox lp bh open blocks and it too landed short.

Overall I’m going to try to use my fw+dtecs ox which has more spring. It might help in some ways and hurt in others. I’m going to remove my slower p1r ox off my mat pro and replace it with 755 ox which has more kick as well.

Thanks carbonman!

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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2014, 18:10 
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timeout wrote:
I haven’t purchased anything in a while because I’ve hit the wall …just not sure 100% about what to get or what path to take…compared to ox lp feint soft 1.5 is quite fast and more higher throwing for active shots imo but I trust your judgement here.

Overall I’m going to try to use my fw+dtecs ox which has more spring. It might help in some ways and hurt in others. I’m going to remove my slower p1r ox off my mat pro and replace it with 755 ox which has more kick as well.

Try not to look for solutions from equipment. Yes, inverted or SP would make the task easier but if you are going to stick to LP then no problem. Changing from one OX to another wont make any significant difference as the problem is in the lack of friction combined with the lack of sponge. Its hard to give the ball air for safety with any LP OX as the trajectory is very flat and gives little room for error. Really, if you are going to use LP OX then, in order to cope with fast strong balls, you have to practice drills much more so that your reflexes are faster and your timing is very precise. A lot of multi-ball wont hurt.

btw - have you learnt to hit a regular BHs or can you only do pushblock stuf? It is very dicey trying to return strong flat hits via pushblocking BHs.


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2014, 11:05 
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Muti Ball practices usually require a coach and at this stage I am coachless. TT is a recreation for me although I’ve often contemplated tourneys and ratings, given my busy schedule, the most I can do is squeeze in a houseleague season, here and there. One night a week, or two if I’m lucky.Anything more and it starts to become serious so at least now I am content with my progress as a recreational player. I’ve done very well for what I have put into my game. To strive for higher goals without coaching, that might take a much longer time, and that’s reasonable and natural just like evolution. I can look at all the people in the club and conclude that the majority of good players are the old guys. It took them a while to max so most likely it will take the same amount of time for me. I’m by no means a prodigy and a candidate for the Olympics or even the Special Oylmpics.

May I add, with the number of replies that I have received from you, you are the closest thing to a coach that I have in a while and the other users on OOAK, high and low and everyone in between. Really that’s good enough for a past time and once again many thanks for your help carbonman.

Yes the EJ in me crys out for a band aid solution – its easiest thing to do but that usually leads to other negative consequences. I would like to try sp with sponge but I know that minimall changes need to be implemented first. One of the reasons that I have for going to the bag instead of the coach is that it is very hard to believe that a faster speedier ball was all it took to produce a mishit from me. I have successfully blocked so many speedy hits before and none have had this kind of recoil – a dead ball and a jolting blade. Like I said before, I was there for the shot, the blade was there to intercept the ball but to no avail. Of course where exactly on the blade did the ball hit is another matter. As I type in my reply, I really can’t imagine how I can physically overcome that situation – my reaction time was sound. Therefore it must be equipment related problem-wise and solution-wise.

And granted that sps are too much of a change right now, the only thing that makes sense to me, and is the easiest to implement to try another setup that might play like a thick sponge sp – for me that is my thickest blade the fw+. And since I’m not good at all with sps, the next best thing is to use lps. This may not be ideal but it’s the best I can do at the moment.

Another great thing about reaching the next level up, or crisis, or traveling to the next point in your life is that your knowledge of the game expands and you learn to appreciate the knowledge that others possess. To make a huge blanket statement about ox lp blockers reaching a peak implies that that you have seen it all and that places you head and shoulders above me and my little microcosm tt universe. If anything, I’ll just keep on playing that one dude, whenever I get the opportunity, and just be thankful that my other competitors are not in his league. The other thing that I take away from all of this, is that my understanding of the OX speed versus Sponge speed argument has improved. Using sponge does help to slow down the ball but in a blocking way. In a chopping way, sponge might catapult the ball faster. Also, sponge lp blocking might be the next step in my evolution as an lp blocker as I now realize that it can help mask the spin of the blocked shot as opposed to a predictable ox lp return…

Oh yeah, I had normal inverted strokes before all of this lp craze. But they were self learned. Most people back then said my bh topspin was my best inverted stroke as it was natural and very spinny and reliable. The fh was a flop.

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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2014, 15:10 
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Even though you don't need a coach to do multi-ball such practice is probably not what you want to do in the limited table time you have.

Not that it is important but I can't understand why the issue MUST be equipment related (of course, as stated above, SP or inverted would make the task easier). Even though you were there in time for the shot why couldn't you have missed due to a chink in technique, timing and/or touch?

It's tough to get to the next level by only playing once or twice week. Still, if you are a recreational player having fun it doesn't matter. Soldier on and perhaps stay away from your nemesis' BH. :)


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2014, 21:03 
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I have also had similar trouble with strong incoming balls, getting inconsistent speed from my LP. Not sure whether this applies to your issue, but I thought I'd mention it...
I have found that a "swipe" of some kind helps a little. "Active" blocking (but mostly up, not much forward) or chop block seems to yield better consistency. Sideswipe is perhaps even better, but it is harder to do against fast returns (longer stroke movement needs more time).

I suspect that the flat hit against little/no spin makes long pips fold/collapse randomly, absorbing energy. When you add sideways motion you create a more predictable and even bending of the pips, which allows for more consistent returns.

As always, it may be only in my head... :lol:

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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2014, 02:19 
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Thanks for the input keme.

Now surely I’m not nuts.

Could the pips be described as bottoming out under such hard impact?

I’m going to try it again today at the club with sponge lp. The good thing about all of this is I have a few topsheets that I can try to glue to sponges – wow a whole new experience!

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