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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2015, 16:11 
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I'm struggling with my pimples over the table.

I'm using Curl P1-R with 1.1mm sponge.

Often, my first push after a chop, or during a pushing rally, I make mistakes.

I can chop consistently, but over the table I'm particularly poor.

If the backspin is heavy, I either net the ball (trying to push like inverted) or I put it mid length and too high (trying to "knuckle" the ball with a more open bat). This is particularly hard when I've chopped heavily and my opponent has "thrust" the ball at me with very heavy backspin.

The other problem I then have is, in the pushing rally, once the spin drops or disappears, I'm absolutely rubbish at playing against float. So many times the ball just drops off my bat or flies off the table.

My question then is... how do I practice this? What drills can I do to practice my pushing?

Also, should I always be trying to play the inverted-like push? Joo does, he never "knuckles" the ball the way I do. I find it really hard to push under the ball with every stroke, especially heavy backspin.

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Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


Last edited by dunc on 24 Jun 2015, 20:06, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2015, 17:27 
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Joo uses thicker sponge...
I think the push against a drop shot is much easier to do with inverted so I often twiddle. But that makes it easier for your opponent so keep practicing this stroke with LP but you also need to be able to twiddle. However, read the spin and speed carefully, and take into account that you usually has more speed comming i to the table from distance, so you need to either make the stroke even slower or stop half a second before making the stroke. Amount of spin is not the key, just keep practicing to keep it low and on the line.
Drill: push (you) against push or drive/float (opponen).

Abother thing is to wait with the stroke until the ball has past the edge of the table, and then make stroke but more like a normal chop (this works best on the low spin returns). With this stroke the key is to be cautious and place the ball low and at on the white line, since it won't have much spin.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2015, 21:59 
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One of my clubmates keeps telling me that I should never push heavy backspin with my LP - use more open paddle to bump/lift (no idea what to call it..) to return it as float/topspin instead. I don't have this shot nailed yet, so just yesterday in the league match he repeatedly went to my BH with heavy pushes, which I mostly netted.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2015, 22:14 
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pgpg wrote:
One of my clubmates keeps telling me that I should never push heavy backspin with my LP - use more open paddle to bump/lift (no idea what to call it..) to return it as float/topspin instead. I don't have this shot nailed yet, so just yesterday in the league match he repeatedly went to my BH with heavy pushes, which I mostly netted.

Yep, I usually roll (bumb/lift) every backspin back as a top spin. It's more reliable shot than push. It's easiness depends on your equipment.


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2015, 22:59 
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pgpg wrote:
One of my clubmates keeps telling me that I should never push heavy backspin with my LP - use more open paddle to bump/lift (no idea what to call it..) to return it as float/topspin instead. I don't have this shot nailed yet, so just yesterday in the league match he repeatedly went to my BH with heavy pushes, which I mostly netted.


Unless you use ox there is no wrong in pushing back backspin. You have a very good opportunity to confuse your opponent wih this stroke, making opponent be insecure of what spin the ball has, and resulting in a pop up or a weak attack. When you push back a heavy back spin with LP you can push with force or with a wrist snap, resulting in a return with slight back spin or no spin. Or you can make the same stroke but with a stiff wrist (stiffen it just before ball contact) resulting in a slightly topspinned return. If you practice these strokes you can disguise the spin pretty well.

Look at Joo, Filus, Gionis and other defenders. They all push back a push, sometimes with inverted but most of the time with their pips.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2015, 00:52 
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Agree with Def-attack. While it is a good idea to twiddle and push with inverted sometimes, one of the benefits of P-1R is that you can create some of your own spin, and if you go under the ball and snap your wrist with a forward motion on contact, you will send back an actual underspin ball. I find that opponents robotically taught the formula "push with long pips = no spin/light topspin" routinely net the ball, and even opponents who know you can generate some spin still sometimes have a hard time gauging how much spin there is on the ball, resulting in either outright errors or tentative, attackable returns. And, of course, as Def-attack also pointed out, a slightly more vertical stroke with a stiffer wrist can generate a very aggressive light topspin return. At lower levels, opponents often flat-out don't know what spin is on the ball and either loop or push long, but even at higher levels, good placement on this kind of shot (e.g., deep into the backhand corner against a forehand-dominant player) can set you up to win the rally. You just need to practice these shots until they feel natural. If you have access to a robot, that might be the best option to use to get the basic LP strokes down.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2015, 21:11 
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Every time I try to push properly against backspin with the pimples, i.e. a the type of stroke Joo plays, I seem to net the ball.

I'm going to the club tonight to almost exclusively work on my pushing technique so I'll ask my friend to record it, then I'll post it in here. Hopefully y'all can scrutinise it and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I do have a robot... but my table tennis shed is currently housing the entire downstairs' furniture whilst we await decoration. Typical!

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2015, 22:58 
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dunc wrote:
Every time I try to push properly against backspin with the pimples, i.e. a the type of stroke Joo plays, I seem to net the ball.

I'm going to the club tonight to almost exclusively work on my pushing technique so I'll ask my friend to record it, then I'll post it in here. Hopefully y'all can scrutinise it and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I do have a robot... but my table tennis shed is currently housing the entire downstairs' furniture whilst we await decoration. Typical!

Open the bat more. Start with low impact and then increase the speed/force of your wrist and stroke as you get better. Just practice push against push. Then add some twiddeling. If you film it, try to film both from distance (so we can see both players) and a few minutes close up of your part of the table. Good luck.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2015, 23:35 
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Good call, I'll do exactly that.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2015, 17:17 
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OK, here's a video against one of our lower level players who uses spinny rubbers on both sides and gets quite a lot of backspin on his pushes.



I specifically tried to push every ball. I "knuckled" one ball half way through just to see if Phil popped it up.

I didn't feel like I was getting any backspin. I felt that I was getting light topspin most of the time. Phil didn't net a single push from my pimples, but netted quite a few from my inverted.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2015, 17:36 
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I took this video too, a quick end against one of the Chinese lads from the club. It doesn't have much pushing in, but it does have one or two, and this is obviously a more "real" view of how I push in games:


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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2015, 17:52 
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dunc wrote:
OK, here's a video against one of our lower level players who uses spinny rubbers on both sides and gets quite a lot of backspin on his pushes.



I specifically tried to push every ball. I "knuckled" one ball half way through just to see if Phil popped it up.

I didn't feel like I was getting any backspin. I felt that I was getting light topspin most of the time. Phil didn't net a single push from my pimples, but netted quite a few from my inverted.

Looks pretty good, but you must bend your knees a lot more even for this stroke.
The point is not to make your opponent net your pushes, it is to make him want to loop from a bad position. Or, if he pushes back, make him unsure what spin your push carries. Keep practicing!

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2015, 18:30 
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I'm recovering from ruptured soft tissue damage in my left foot so I'm not carrying my weight well at all. Hadn't played TT in nearly 4 weeks until this week.

Aye I wasn't trying to get Phil to net the ball, I was just using that as a gauge as to whether or not I was actually getting backspin on my LP pushes. I feel like I wasn't. I feel like I was getting light topspin, which means I'm not engaging the sponge properly. What do you think DA?

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2015, 02:16 
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dunc wrote:
I specifically tried to push every ball. I "knuckled" one ball half way through just to see if Phil popped it up.

I didn't feel like I was getting any backspin. I felt that I was getting light topspin most of the time. Phil didn't net a single push from my pimples, but netted quite a few from my inverted.


Phil's the guy with the yellow and black stripes, right?

I'm not surprised he'd net the ones off the inverted, you're capable of putting much more backspin with that. I do see him popping up pushes off the pips, though, which is what I'd expect.

When I first started playing I had Phantom 009 on one side, and was constantly making people pop up pushes (no two color rule back then.. :lol: ). Problem was my kill was mediocre and so was my pushing with the long pips!

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2015, 02:19 
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dunc wrote:
I'm recovering from ruptured soft tissue damage in my left foot so I'm not carrying my weight well at all. Hadn't played TT in nearly 4 weeks until this week.

Aye I wasn't trying to get Phil to net the ball, I was just using that as a gauge as to whether or not I was actually getting backspin on my LP pushes. I feel like I wasn't. I feel like I was getting light topspin, which means I'm not engaging the sponge properly. What do you think DA?

Agree. But also you need to use the pips side mire. You use a swift motion with much wrist. Try a slower but stronger motion with less wrist but where the ball stays on the bat a longer time. Look at how Joo does it :)

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