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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2015, 06:29 
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MAGIC PLAY... в натуре.

Пятая, шестая партия, Хиук в огне, Мизутани сгорел как щепка. Супер защита.

http://cdn.laola1.tv/ittf/iframe/player.html?pfad=mp4:CHANNEL1-Seniors/2015/ittf_kobe/150626_t1_JOO_Saehyuk_KOR_MIZUTANI_Jun_JPN

Truly fascinating play by JooSeHuik on his backhand wing, owning mostly to the plastic unuque features, less spinny, less bouncy, etc.
DHS 40+ makes you a wall.
The novelty defensive sponge by BTF makes you a Lord of the game.

Some useful lesson to the good of all the defensive players as derived from the present video

Fellow Defender,
-- Keep yourself away from celluloid balls, you have got little chance to cope the attakers with celluloid. Plastic favours the chopper pre-eminently..


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2015, 10:52 
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I have the same problem....I solve it in two ways....1. Get there faster so you
have more of a downwards trajectory. 2. Ever so slightly chop the side of the ball. I'm not saying add side spin. But angling the racket a bit works for me.


Also don't worry about giving a heavy backspin ball. You can't. I can't, joo can't, nobody can. They are long pips and unless someone totally misread (which will only happen once against a good player) it will always be slight backspin to nospin on a push. Instead of working about spin work about height and DEPTH. Depth is even more important then height. It gives you time and your opponent less of an angle.

This is a shot that is just as crucial if not more crucial then the chop against topspin. A rally is more likely to have one of these in it then a loop or a chop or smash or anything. ..

My general rule is....If I'm late....twiddle. because the ball off the long pips when you are late is usually an easy kill. If you are on time. Long. If you are VERY on time (lol) long and low and fast and follow with a counter or pip smash.

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2015, 17:44 
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leatherback wrote:
I have the same problem....I solve it in two ways....1. Get there faster so you
have more of a downwards trajectory. 2. Ever so slightly chop the side of the ball. I'm not saying add side spin. But angling the racket a bit works for me.


Also don't worry about giving a heavy backspin ball. You can't. I can't, joo can't, nobody can. They are long pips and unless someone totally misread (which will only happen once against a good player) it will always be slight backspin to nospin on a push. Instead of working about spin work about height and DEPTH. Depth is even more important then height. It gives you time and your opponent less of an angle.

This is a shot that is just as crucial if not more crucial then the chop against topspin. A rally is more likely to have one of these in it then a loop or a chop or smash or anything. ..

My general rule is....If I'm late....twiddle. because the ball off the long pips when you are late is usually an easy kill. If you are on time. Long. If you are VERY on time (lol) long and low and fast and follow with a counter or pip smash.

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You have the same problem even with SP?

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2015, 01:00 
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.....no haha I should have specified. Long pips give me that problem, short pips you have the ability to just sorta let the ball bounce off like inverted. Long pips you have to do something...

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2015, 01:46 
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Sorry gents, let me be more clear.

I'm not trying to get heavy backspin, I'm just trying to get float or light backspin. Basically anything other than reversal!

I tried it more last night during drills and I think the answer is to have a more horizontal bat angle, as I believe DA pointed out.

Using that stroke, I feel like I can put quite a lot of force into the motion, and still keep the ball on the table. That's really good, feels like I have a lot of control - as opposed to the "knuckle" where I never really feel like I can control the ball as accurately (in terms of length) as I need to be.

leatherback I've noticed that Joo angles his bat a little bit, so I think you may be on to something there. I'll give that a go too.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2015, 11:10 
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I think def-attack and leatherback spoke well. Your motion is quite ok, in fact i think you got quite a decent number of backspin pushes in your videos, of course you can still work a lot on the wrist and your overall stroke... sometimes, if i may say, it seems you begin the stroke too soon and end up to "hit" the ball a bit rather than brushing it... as def-attack said, you need to try to work on the ball more, to keep it on the paddle more.

But i think leatherback said the most important thing: with most of lp, and P1 is no big difference, you can't always have backspin... i think you can have decent back only when the ball you are pushing is already a quite good backspin, because then you can really brush with the pips against that backspin; of course you can also spin a no spin ball, but it's very difficult, requires almost a chop, so the ball needs to be long and it isn't so easy... so a agree the most important thing is to keep the push low and fast, with little variations but they come from themselves... if you get decent spin to work with then you can really trying to get the spin and work on the ball, but if there's no-spin or slight backspin you shouldn't focus too much on trying to get spin but rather placement-speed-height.
Of course professionals like Joo have a much better hand and training and eye, so they can work with the spin a lot better... i'm just saying that some things are almost impossiblme for us to imitate, and some are almost impossible even for them! :lol: It would be like trying to attack with full arm a 3rd ball low over the table as Ryu seungmin could do in his golden times... even if it's "just" pushing i think it's the same in our case ;)

And of course, more sponge and softer blade can help with gripping the ball with pips (es: big difference between JSH and VKM)... and also some very grippy and soft pips are able to spin almost every ball much easier (to me, FIII, FII and P4 belong to this group), but p1 is a very different beast ;) If you look carefully to Chen Weixing, Wang Xi and Li kewei you'll notice that often even they can't create basckpin (Li even twiddles sometimes) but they make the push very difficult to attack using it's other features

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2015, 21:21 
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Thanks Revan, great post.

I bought FLIII recently because I wanted to try a different approach against pushers/slow-rollers. It didn't work out, but I was amazed at how much backspin you can get on a push with that rubber. In a lot of respects it was very similar to a short pimple - it was very sensitive to spin, especially sidespin, which is almost the opposite of the P1-R.

I know P1-R isn't made for heavy backspin on pushes, I just want to know that I can play the correct stroke on a push to avoid reversal. I then want to know that I can differentiate between that stroke and a similar-looking stroke where I achieve reversal. That will be really valuable against a lot of opponents.

leatherback I also totally agree with your advice about twiddling if you're late. I think what I'm learning with this stroke, as Revan and others have said, is that I need quite a lot of arm motion before I make contact with the ball. If you're late, that's almost impossible, and I end up "knuckling" those balls. That's not the end of the world if the ball is on the white line and quite low but anywhere else and it leaves you dead in the water. In addition, against some opponents, twiddling is the only real option - those who read spin well and are competent at slapping light topspin balls for instance.

At my current level, close games and those against higher level opponents are dictated almost exclusively by how tight my pushes and serve receives are. The rest is almost irrelevant. I can chop 90%+ of opponents' loops if my push/serve receive has been long enough and difficult enough. It's only when I start putting things middle-length or high that my game falls apart. That's also when you start to look like a bad player - impossible to "defend" against balls that are slapped past you or looped at horribly wide angles.

Thanks for all of your input gents.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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