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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 18:37 
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I am getting really tired of playing with Dtechs against no spin players.
I Cannot Seem to twiddle very Well.
Almost every player in the league i Play use this Tactic, and I have no Solution other than attacking with FH whenever it is possible...
I find Dtechs too fast and difficult to control over the table

Would it be Easier to use a slower pimple with a little more grip ?

Would a thicker sponge on a different LP make it easier to Face these no spin balls ?


:sweat:

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 23:41 
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Changing your rubber won't really help you, I'm afraid. This is a strategy that will be used against all LP players.

Your current LP is actually one of the best pimples you can get for playing against this strategy because the disruptive reversal effect from D.TecS is huge. I will also however say that it's very hard to control.

Here are a few strategies you can use to counter this "pinning into backhand with no spin" technique:

  • Improve your LP technique and placement - push the ball heavy and long, roll the ball, drop the ball short, etc. - just don't push the ball back mid length and mid height
  • Twiddle and push - not all the time, but every other push is a good idea. Load some spin up with a heavy dig and then when the ball comes back with spin on it, your pimples push is more effective
  • Attack with your backhand - whether this means learning the OX LP hit against backspin, or a twiddled backhand loop, this is always an option
  • Play a spinny forehand loop from your backhand corner - this is my preferred technique, but it requires a bit of athleticism and confidence. If someone pins me into my backhand, I try to run around my backhand corner and play a slow, spinny loop. Often this wins points directly because players dislike the heavy spin but in most situations they return it as a passive block which means I have time to get back into position and play a proper winning forehand for my next shot

Once you get to a certain level, you'll find fewer and fewer players who play with no spin. Unfortunately there are other strategies which more skilled, powerful players can use to cause you even more difficulties... :) But you can ask about that when you get there.

Main thing is - if the rubber is good for everything else you use it for, keep it and just work on some of the above strategies. No LP will be able to instantly stop these players from beating you (or, even if they're not beating you, stop them from using this strategy) though so you'll have to pick some guidance from above anyway and work, work, work.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 02:08 
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Changing your long pip could definitely help, well it did for me, I was having the same problem.
I changed to a slower long pip with more grip, this gave me more control and I could attack the no-spin balls.
I changed to Lion claw ox, I also had some success with Spin Lord stechenfleur, these are similar.

Hope that helps.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 02:58 
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I don't have any problem vs dead balls control. I use Kokutaku long pips Tulpe 911 OX better control, it works cause I let a non experienced long pips try it and he adapted quickly.

You can buy it cheap at Eacheng.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 06:35 
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I am a chopper and prefer to play away from the table
Would it be better to use a little more sponge underneath the LP ?
Maybe my trouble is because I expect attacks from the opponents and often
they do NOT attack.
I have beaten some very good attackers around 2000 but
Struggle in the game over the table.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 07:46 
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This has come up several times. Part of the problem is that enthusiastic trainee modern defenders imagine themselves getting into Joo-like rallies against power loopers, and describe themselves as choppers. In actual fact until those players reach a certain level they simply don't play the kind of person against whom that kind of game is remotely relevant.

I remember discussing this with Ukrainian number one Tetyana Bilenko. Her advice? Loop the **** out of them. If you're not playing against someone against whom you actually have to defend, you have to attack them. It's the fastest and most reliable way to get rid of them. If you can do that, you'll start facing players against whom you will get a chance to play the way you dream of playing.

You mention you've had some good wins in these kinds of games. I think this supports my point. You struggle against less strong players who don't attack you, and give you no spin balls.

If you watch strong defenders play weaker players - and I'm thinking here of, say, Hannah, or my coach, or Jo Drinkhall (Parker), all of whose games I know well, they don't have this problem. It isn't a function of their rubber (although it's easier for Jo, as she uses 2 x inverted) - it's a function of tactics, footwork, and technique. Both Adam and Hannah will blast a no spin ball. Adam will go around his BH and hit a FH. Hannah is more inclined to twiddle or hit with pips. But the lesson is clear: they discourage this tactic by punishing it.

Of course, these players are much stronger than you and me, but they had to pass through this phase.

I agree with Dunc. I, like you, struggle against this tactic, but I think the solution is to work on strategies to combat it, and to try to set up drills which allow these strategies to be worked on.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 08:58 
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Tenergy05fx wrote:
I am a chopper and prefer to play away from the table
Would it be better to use a little more sponge underneath the LP ?
Maybe my trouble is because I expect attacks from the opponents and often
they do NOT attack.
I have beaten some very good attackers around 2000 but
Struggle in the game over the table.


I chop off the table using OX, works as good as sponge with better control.

For over the table practice, try to play without any unforced errors against lower skilled players until you can handle anything, even players using generic no spin paddles. That is what I did.

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Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 09:27 
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Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
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For me, it was much easier to learn to twiddle and push than to loop no-spin but pushing no-spin spin is as much an art to keep it low. This way you can reintroduce spin back into the rally.

I work on both looping and pushing though.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 11:25 
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LordCope wrote:
This has come up several times. Part of the problem is that enthusiastic trainee modern defenders imagine themselves getting into Joo-like rallies against power loopers, and describe themselves as choppers. In actual fact until those players reach a certain level they simply don't play the kind of person against whom that kind of game is remotely relevant.

I remember discussing this with Ukrainian number one Tetyana Bilenko. Her advice? Loop the **** out of them. If you're not playing against someone against whom you actually have to defend, you have to attack them. It's the fastest and most reliable way to get rid of them. If you can do that, you'll start facing players against whom you will get a chance to play the way you dream of playing.

You mention you've had some good wins in these kinds of games. I think this supports my point. You struggle against less strong players who don't attack you, and give you no spin balls.

If you watch strong defenders play weaker players - and I'm thinking here of, say, Hannah, or my coach, or Jo Drinkhall (Parker), all of whose games I know well, they don't have this problem. It isn't a function of their rubber (although it's easier for Jo, as she uses 2 x inverted) - it's a function of tactics, footwork, and technique. Both Adam and Hannah will blast a no spin ball. Adam will go around his BH and hit a FH. Hannah is more inclined to twiddle or hit with pips. But the lesson is clear: they discourage this tactic by punishing it.

Of course, these players are much stronger than you and me, but they had to pass through this phase.

I agree with Dunc. I, like you, struggle against this tactic, but I think the solution is to work on strategies to combat it, and to try to set up drills which allow these strategies to be worked on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I totally agree. But then again... Why would someone eventually turn to defense then, certainly at the top level? It's not at this moment of time the best way to win a match. Theoretically it confuses the hell out of me.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 17:13 
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I have a chopper teammate, who also loves to play against strong loopers and before our 3. division tournament he insisted on traing against clubs strong loopers. As you can quess, nearly every player in the 3. division was "not much spin" kind of a player. He didn't like at all. ;) Althought he was better player in ratings, he struggled most of the matches, because he didn't have much of a medicin against no spin strategy.

I got easy wins against same lower rated "no spin" players, because I have effective and safe table play strategy. I usually alternate between pips push and pips roll with good consistensy and that is too much for "no spin" player to handle - because I have more consistency. Slower "half grippy" sponged pips help in consistency compared to Dtecs, as I don't have any floater problems. You just have to train off the bounce counters with the pips. The chopper teammate had only the low spin chop in his arsenal and that gave opponent time and easy time with similar balls one after another. If you can roll well and safely, that's great strategy to get opponent out of balance.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 17:24 
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Thanks for All the replies.
My footwork isnt quite Ready for aftacking every dead Ball.
I Use Tenergy 05 on the fh it is difficult to use on the bh side because of
The High throw angle.
Would i be easier to Hith with my LP with a thicker sponge ?

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 17:43 
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Tenergy05fx wrote:
I Use Tenergy 05 on the fh it is difficult to use on the bh side because of
The High throw angle.
Would i be easier to Hith with my LP with a thicker sponge ?

I don't know any player at intermediate+ level that can (1) flip the blade or (2) hit with pips effectively. On the other hand I know some players that can (1) bumb the ball all over the table with decent speed or (2) just keep the ball in play effectively.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 23:20 
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Tenergy05fx wrote:
Thanks for All the replies.
My footwork isnt quite Ready for aftacking every dead Ball.
I Use Tenergy 05 on the fh it is difficult to use on the bh side because of
The High throw angle.
Would i be easier to Hith with my LP with a thicker sponge ?


Some good replies here already, but I'll echo LordCope's thoughts and urge you to learn how to deal with it using your current setup. Changing EQ may (or may not) help your current predicament but it can just as likely introduce a new problem. I've used 0.5mm dtecs for quite some time now and handling no spin is very possible with the right technique. Practice with a partner until you've got a consistent "stay in the rally" shot against no spin. Don't try to win the point outright. If they decide to pin you down over and over on your backhand, then it should be easy enough to twiddle b/c you know what to expect. If they go to your forehand, loop it.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 23:48 
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Roy wrote:
Tenergy05fx wrote:
I Use Tenergy 05 on the fh it is difficult to use on the bh side because of
The High throw angle.
Would i be easier to Hith with my LP with a thicker sponge ?

I don't know any player at intermediate+ level that can (1) flip the blade or (2) hit with pips effectively. On the other hand I know some players that can (1) bumb the ball all over the table with decent speed or (2) just keep the ball in play effectively.



My thoughts too Roy. Bumping and pushing to position, and even inviting a loop or hit that can then be blocked to create some tricky reversal or angle can be effective. So can dropping dead balls short. Serving with a lot of spin and forcing a spinny return helps stop being given dead balls too. Adopting a serving strategy and a returning strategy that aim to put the opponent out of their comfort zone on dishing up dead balls will see either a reduction in them, or a way to attack them from your FH.....which will guarantee they try other things. :devil:

Putting a sponged LP on is only going to make your difficulty with no spin balls worse as the sponge will amplify any errors you're making on them....like sending the ball long REALLY easily. If you can attack well with a sponged LP, you'll attack ok with an Ox LP. If you can't attack with Ox, sponge isn't going to help.

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 10:44 
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Funny, I find hitting with sponged LP far easier than with OX.

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