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Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=23929
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Author:  Pipsy [ 04 Oct 2013, 04:32 ]
Post subject:  Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

There are some good examples of OX-choppers. Let's collect them here and discuss viability for modern defence, specific technique and strategy (compared to sponged chopping)!

One of the big names chopping with OX LP (Palio CK 531 OX) is Sun Jian Fei: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12740

Chopping demo at Table Tennis Club Markham Ontario Canada



Training lesson, part 2 (part 1 discusses attacking and short game with OX LP):


Author:  Pipsy [ 04 Oct 2013, 21:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

I just wrote my own experience with going from OX-chopping with non-grippy pips to chopping with grippy pips in 0.5 in another thread:

Pipsy wrote:

I always played double inverted before switching to modern defence a couple of years ago, inspired by the beauty of a classical defender at my previous club. I started with OX pips played and finished last league year with Palio CK531 OX on a Victas Koji Matsushita blade which is probably quite close to Matsushita Pro blade. I did try Palio OX on other (defensive) blades and the difference was quite big. See f.e. viewtopic.php?f=43&t=21085. I also tried some balsa blades but didn't like them at all. After last year's league I switched to Curl P1r 0.5 to be a little more stable and deceptive in long defence and to be able to create my own spin. My next experiment will be Feint Long II 1.0 on the VKM.

1) Blade: I chose to stay away from balsa blades and I also don't really like the combination hard + very stiff. Why? Because my looping was a lot better with the softer or flexier blades and so was my chopping ability. If looping is one of your core strengths, I would choose the material that maximally supports it. The question is 'what do you really want?'. More 'disturbing potential' and staying close to the table while attacking weaker balls? Or modern defence and mainly loop, fish, chop a bit further away from the table? You can do both very well with Palio OX on VKM (and so I assume also on MP).

2) OX or (thin) sponge: Coincidentally, I opened a thread about OX-chopping technique yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=23929. For me, the transition from Palio OX to Curl P1r 0.5 wasn't too hard. The Curl's sponge is very hard and thin. But I had to change my chopping stroke a little. With Palio OX, I had a shorter chopping stroke and I moved more horizontally. It wasn't necessary (and wasn't easy as well) to 'make' the spin because the pips are non-grippy. Now, my opponents missed quite some loops by sending them long, mostly because they assumed my chops had backspin, but in fact there was little spin or no spin. And, by adjusting the chopping stroke I could manipulate the amount of backspin a little bit (no spin versus little spin).

Biggest difference with Curl 0.5 is that my chops CAN be heavier and produce much more backspin but NOT with the same stroke I made with Palio OX. A fuller, longer chopping movement, bit more vertically (especially on harder shots) can create a lot of backspin. A second advantage of the Curl 0.5 is, when pushing close to the table, I can now create my own backspin which makes it harder for the opponent to attack it. A third advantage is that I can attack easier with the Curl or play an easier 'open' game. The biggest disadvantage with Curl 0.5 is that my (passive) blocks no longer feed reversed spin back to the opponent and can be punished easily. For me however, this disadvantage is outweighed by the benefits...

Author:  haggisv [ 05 Oct 2013, 09:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

It will be hard to find names at the elite level, but I'm sure there are many at high levels in each country, and a LOT more at the veterans level which can still be very high. In Australia Greg Letts and Paul Pickowich come to mind. Dr Neubauer is another... there must be many in Germany!

Author:  Pipsy [ 07 Oct 2013, 08:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Hiroshi Shibutani was an OX-chopper at the elite level. He played with Feint Long II OX. Adorable style, similar to Matsushita Koji...


Author:  Def-attack [ 10 Oct 2013, 21:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

We also have Chen Bing in some German league (there used to be lots of vids of him but that site is no more ;( ).
I only found this one for the moment, but there should be more:

There is an old thread about him: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8388

Then we have Swedish defender Tomas Bennborn: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14087
He uses SP on FH and plays a very classic defensive style.

Author:  dazzler [ 10 Oct 2013, 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

maybe a slower pip would help?

Author:  Def-attack [ 10 Oct 2013, 22:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

dazzler wrote:
maybe a slower pip would help?


I would say that XiYing 979 is one of the best for ox chopping (but I guess P4 would be good as well). It has a very thick base sheet, feels almost like it had a thin sponge.

Author:  Pipsy [ 11 Oct 2013, 04:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

I'm not sure you need a real slow pip for OX-chopping. Palio CK531a isn't the slowest around and certainly not the grippiest. I've also seen some guys chopping with D'tecs OX. I think you can chop with nearly anything as long you develop the right stroke and timing for it.

Def-attack wrote:
dazzler wrote:
maybe a slower pip would help?


I would say that XiYing 979 is one of the best for ox chopping (but I guess P4 would be good as well). It has a very thick base sheet, feels almost like it had a thin sponge.


Thanks Def for mentioning Thomas Bennborn: He uses TSP 2.5 blade with Curl P1r OX and BTY Raystorm.



Doesn't Tomas Mikutis also chops with OX pips?

Author:  Pipsy [ 28 Oct 2013, 08:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Pipsy wrote:
There are some good examples of OX-choppers. Let's collect them here and discuss viability for modern defence, specific technique and strategy (compared to sponged chopping)!

One of the big names chopping with OX LP (Palio CK 531 OX) is Sun Jian Fei: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12740

Training lesson, part 2 (part 1 discusses attacking and short game with OX LP):



Hey yjd,

would be great if you could more or less translate what Sun Jian Fei says in this video... if you'd find some time for it of course :-)

Author:  Justas [ 28 Oct 2013, 17:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Pipsy wrote:
Doesn't Tomas Mikutis also chops with OX pips?

No, he does not. He's playing with 0,7mm sponge. Actually most of our better players play with 0,5 -0,7 sponges.
There are no choppers with OX. I could be the first one if I tried that :D

Author:  Pipsy [ 29 Oct 2013, 21:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Yep, indeed. I updated Mikutis material in his thread some weeks ago: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15511&start=15. Can you confirm if this is his equipment to date?

Justas wrote:
Pipsy wrote:
Doesn't Tomas Mikutis also chops with OX pips?

No, he does not. He's playing with 0,7mm sponge. Actually most of our better players play with 0,5 -0,7 sponges.
There are no choppers with OX. I could be the first one if I tried that :D



Generally, I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages when OX-chopping with slower and grippy pips. On the other hand, chopping with less grippy smooth OX-pips with moderate speed can be very interesting. Palio CK 531a OX is just an example (see f.e. Sun Jian Fei, Leatherback). For me, CK531a was good and deceptive for chopping but from experience it was FAR easier to chop on a fairly soft defensive blade (like VKM, Aigis, Defplay). You can't create much backspin in push-to-push rally's, but there are some offensive options there. All-in-all, it makes possible a variation of passive blocking and stepping backwards for chopping heavier spin.

Author:  Justas [ 29 Oct 2013, 23:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Pipsy wrote:
Yep, indeed. I updated Mikutis material in his thread some weeks ago: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15511&start=15. Can you confirm if this is his equipment to date?


Blade and BH are correct, but it was regular aurus max as I remember. Unless he switched.

Author:  Pipsy [ 30 Oct 2013, 19:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Here's Gregg Letts, Australian OX chopper. Got it from his thread here. He used Tackiness Chop 1.1mm red on the FH, Stiga Destroyer OX on the backhand, on a Matsushita Pro Special blade.


Author:  gaijinjoe [ 09 Nov 2013, 22:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

OX choppers, do you have any videos? I've seen the ones with Jian Fei, Greg Letts and Paul Pinkewich. I really dig Pinkewich's style, BTW. I'd like to see some of the OOAK heroes in action to see what I can learn. I've gone through the videos section with not much luck. Thanks!

Author:  Def-attack [ 29 Oct 2015, 22:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Chopping with OX long pips: how, why, who?

Now we also have vidz of Swedish Gustaf Ericsson in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14459
In Sweden we have quite a few players at rather high level using some kinde of LP in ox for some kind of blocking or chopping game. I thing Dornenglanz is the main reason for this development.

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