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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 04:07 
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for my 1st Long Pips, I used a Palio CK531a. It came with a a used Masushista Pro Alpha blade that I bought and it came as an afterthought ( as I mainly wanted the blade).

Anyways I tried Butterfly Feint Long II and it was unwieldy for me as I was inexperienced.
2nd I purchased an Andro Fiber Comp Def and I Fell in love with the blade. I put a TSP Curl P1r as it's supposed to be a great Chopping pips and I gave up after a week and put back the Palio. Too many errors on my part and not enough on the opponents.
Just this weekend I got my Victas Koji Matsushista blade and I put a TSP Curl P4 on it and someone I always beat 3-0 beat me 3-0. They say it doesnt give them as much my problems as my other pips. My pushes dont give them as much trouble and my backspin chops dont look as deceptive (varied).

I'm ready to give up. I just purchased FOUR (4) Palio Ck 531 for $16 shipped! as spares. It's not even HAlf the price (for all 4!) of the TSP curl P4 or P1R and cheaper than my Butterfly Feint Long 2. I'm not even mentioning other more expensive (better?) pips that I've tried including Giant Dragon Talon etc.



There goes my Whine for the day.
Thanks for reading.

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Blade 1 Ross Leidy Rapscallion/Custom: Victas VS>401: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs LP 1.2mm
Blade 2 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Xiom Vega Europe : Tibhar Grass D.tecs LP 1.2 sponge
Blade 3 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Adidas R6: Spinlord Dornenglaz OX
Experimental Blade : Victas Koji Matushista Def : TSP Curl P1r LP .6 sponge : Giant Dragon Submarine Chop



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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 04:38 
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It could be worse. You could have to buy 4 sheets of Curl P4 for backup!

Nothing wrong with the palio LP. They are good and they work for you!


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 05:12 
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vanjr wrote:
It could be worse. You could have to buy 4 sheets of Curl P4 for backup!

Nothing wrong with the palio LP. They are good and they work for you!



Actually I dont see it as worse. IF I have to buy 4 sheets of Curl P4 or P1, it means I've mastered them and I would be much happier.
At About $5 per sheet for CK531a, I have a nagging suspicion that there should be better pips for me and I keep trying to find it.

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Blade 1 Ross Leidy Rapscallion/Custom: Victas VS>401: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs LP 1.2mm
Blade 2 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Xiom Vega Europe : Tibhar Grass D.tecs LP 1.2 sponge
Blade 3 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Adidas R6: Spinlord Dornenglaz OX
Experimental Blade : Victas Koji Matushista Def : TSP Curl P1r LP .6 sponge : Giant Dragon Submarine Chop



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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 05:22 
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I think most LP users can understand a good pip rant every once in awhile. that being said...

I have a couple thoughts, some or all might help explain what is going on. Mainly is the difference between grippy pips and pips that are closer on the spectrum to frictionless. Depending on your style, pips closer to frictionless can be way easier to use effectively, specifically for pushing because of reversal. Your palio will closer to frictionless. Additionally, used pips generally are going to have less friction as well. Sounds like you got use to using the palio and your strokes have adjusted to it.

Now (i am not sure about FL2), but p1r and p4 are definitely grippy LPs. These 2 and probably the FL2 when new, can be very grippy. In each case the blade angles and strokes for the same shots are going to be different. That could easily be enough to render you ineffective, if you cantt adjust your strokes properly our have someone show you the proper technique.

This is all being said without the knowledge of whether any of these pips have sponge or not, which could easily explain difficulty in transitions. Also color, to a lesser degree could matter if those new pips are in black making them extra grippy/stiff without a fair amount of use.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 11:37 
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Ck531a is absurdly easy to use. Its a good rubber to just stick on a blade and start pip tricking people. Probably not as good as the other rubbers when it comes to being aggressive that's all.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 19:17 
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I haven't tried Curl but didn't Joo use it for quite a while? As such i would guess you should be able to chop effectively and heavy with it. Maybe just give it time.


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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2014, 03:29 
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Took the plunge After finishing a couple of tourneys with the Palio. I did extremely well with it though. Went 7-2 on one tourney ( 3 weeks ago under 800 and under 1000) and 8-2 (last week under 1100 and under 1300) .

I have now changed to Giant Dragon Talon LP .9 sponge. I like it. I could counter hit with my backhand which I couldnt do with the Palio.
Problem is two fold. I dont think I get as much deception than the palio and very spinny serves are now a problem . Before I could just stick my Palio out and push and not worry about it. On the plus side, BH chops seem to have more underspin consistently. The Palio was deceptive in that I need to hit it just right were it bites into the pips. This mostly depends on how hard the loop/drive the opponent gives me.

Will give the Talon about 2 months to adjust to it. I hope I can adapt to it as I ordered 3 spares for it so I'm committed. I even gave my Palio away to someone who wanted to try it.

I've played a few matches for past week and I've lost most matches to people I usually beat 3-2 or 3-1 . I dont mind really as I'm still adjusting to the pips and also playing differently and trying modern defender ( attacking with my FH) instead of just chopping from 3-6 ft away on both FH and BH.

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Blade 1 Ross Leidy Rapscallion/Custom: Victas VS>401: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs LP 1.2mm
Blade 2 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Xiom Vega Europe : Tibhar Grass D.tecs LP 1.2 sponge
Blade 3 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Adidas R6: Spinlord Dornenglaz OX
Experimental Blade : Victas Koji Matushista Def : TSP Curl P1r LP .6 sponge : Giant Dragon Submarine Chop



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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 05:46 
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Just gonna list what I've ended up in search of my LP backhand for chopping

I have 4 Giant Dragon Talon , 1 re 1 Black each, OX and .9 mm sponge
1 red TSP Curl P1r,
1 Red TSP curl P4
1 red 1 black OX placio CK531a, 1 Red .6 mm sponge
1 Feint Long II 1mm sponge

For blades, Ive tried Victas Koji Matsushita Def, Joola Flame Extreme, Matushista Defence PRo Giant Dragon Imagine Def and Finally Andro Fiber Def. I've Settled on the Andro and just got a 2nd one today. Im going to try a different variation to my setup but put a Xiom VEga Elite on FH and Giant Dragon Talon OX on it to compare /switch back and forth.

Too lazy to run through list of Inverted's lol

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Blade 1 Ross Leidy Rapscallion/Custom: Victas VS>401: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs LP 1.2mm
Blade 2 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Xiom Vega Europe : Tibhar Grass D.tecs LP 1.2 sponge
Blade 3 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Adidas R6: Spinlord Dornenglaz OX
Experimental Blade : Victas Koji Matushista Def : TSP Curl P1r LP .6 sponge : Giant Dragon Submarine Chop



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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 02:52 
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Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
What happened when you tried the Talon 0X? Maybe try it with a thin (0.5 or 0.6), hard sponge.

I'm guessing that with the 0.9 maybe you are losing too much of the reversal?

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USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 04:51 
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Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:
What happened when you tried the Talon 0X? Maybe try it with a thin (0.5 or 0.6), hard sponge.

I'm guessing that with the 0.9 maybe you are losing too much of the reversal?



ACtually I've never played OX yet. I chop too much and find that the thinnest sponge is adequate. I just ordered an Extra Andro Fibercomp Def blade which I currently use, I plan to put the Talon OX on it, and maybe a slow Gambler Reflectoid or Giant Dragon Submarine Chop on it to compare with my current setup. This new blade would be my "Experiment blade" where I can stick inverted and LP's while not touching my main setup and still be comparing apples to apples by using the same blade. Should have the blade and be using it with Talon OX by the weekend. Will update after a week of playing.

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Blade 1 Ross Leidy Rapscallion/Custom: Victas VS>401: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs LP 1.2mm
Blade 2 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Xiom Vega Europe : Tibhar Grass D.tecs LP 1.2 sponge
Blade 3 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Adidas R6: Spinlord Dornenglaz OX
Experimental Blade : Victas Koji Matushista Def : TSP Curl P1r LP .6 sponge : Giant Dragon Submarine Chop



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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 06:05 
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Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
LDMovies wrote:
Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:
What happened when you tried the Talon 0X? Maybe try it with a thin (0.5 or 0.6), hard sponge.

I'm guessing that with the 0.9 maybe you are losing too much of the reversal?



ACtually I've never played OX yet. I chop too much and find that the thinnest sponge is adequate. I just ordered an Extra Andro Fibercomp Def blade which I currently use, I plan to put the Talon OX on it, and maybe a slow Gambler Reflectoid or Giant Dragon Submarine Chop on it to compare with my current setup. This new blade would be my "Experiment blade" where I can stick inverted and LP's while not touching my main setup and still be comparing apples to apples by using the same blade. Should have the blade and be using it with Talon OX by the weekend. Will update after a week of playing.


Having been through that same decision making process too many times myself, I'll throw out a few thoughts/suggestions...

1. When you setup the twin blade with Talon 0X, setup the forehand side the same as its twin so that the only difference between the two paddles is the sponge or no sponge on the Talon. That way you can really tell where it makes a difference and whether it helps or hurts overall. If you change multiple things, you can't really tell which change caused what effects. I still think trying the Talon on a thin, hard sponge might be a good possible solution if the 0X doesn't work well enough.

2. Once you have decided which backhand rubber setup works best, then do the same test with the backhands on both blades the same, and trying one paddle with each of the forehand rubber setups to see which forehand setup is best.

3. If you chop a lot, you will like 0X as it chops better, with more backspin, and gives more reversal on blocks etc. Also, harder wood and thinner, harder sponge if any, will give more reversal that softer sponges.

4. If neither Talon setup works well enough, maybe try the Palio Ck531a on a thin, hard sponge, since you seem to like it. Its attacking ability might improve without too much loss in reversal.

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 07:13 
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Blade: Donic Defplay
FH: Xiom OmegaV Asia Max
BH: Spinlord DG 2 OX
What you truly need to do is just practice. You are currently at a "beginner" level (for tournament play). At that level, just about any type of pip will win you a lot of matches. You made a comment about with the Palio being able to just "stick the rubber out" and return spinny serves. As you're starting to find out, that's not good enough as you move up the ladder. Learning to read spin is essential if you are ever going to continue to move up. Don't look for a rubber that can do the work for you. Find something that suits the type of style you want to play and stick with it. Train hard with it. But just be honest with yourself, when you lose matches don't blame the rubber, make an honest assessment and figure out where it's your skill that cost you. You'll always want to try new things, but trust me, the best way to get better is to find a set-up that feels comfortable and keep it for a long time. I'm talking a year. The Talon does give a lot more deception and creates more errors for your opponents, but it also causes more errors for the user as well. If you have aspirations to move up in rating, though, it's a very good rubber to use, but you must be committed to it. Don't look for what's "easy", look for what's right.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2015, 13:18 
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because Victas Koji Matsushita have soft outer ply and p4 have very soft sponge = you not have spin reverse, only spin manipulation, but spin manipulation by itself without spin generation or in this case spin reverse it worth nothing.


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