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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 01:06 
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OK. I use Defplay Senso with Dtec OX. And let me just stipulate up front that my chopping "skills" are probably at a low-mid intermediate level....so any advice

I'm getting the first cpl of chops back on the table at a reasonable height....but it seems like...more often than not...the next ball sits up to high and it gets killed.

Outside of a likely breakdown in my chopping stroke :headbang: ....I'm wondering if I'm wandering too far back and my chops are simply too slow....

And rather than start a new thread.....I'm also wondering if OX rubber on slightly stiffer blade would work better for me. I've been using the Tibhar Defense +....and it's a little more rigid than the Defplay but it's also slower. I'm like Goldilocks.....I wish I could find a blade with the same speed as the Defplay but also slightly stiffer. Any ideas?

I've tried numerous blades....Tibhar Stratus Power Defense is very nice blade for chopping but it's way too bouncy for at the table play. Chen Weixing is a fantastic blade but is a little too fast also too springy for my taste.

I need a dull....lifeless blade :) with a Def +/All - speed.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 04:58 
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A video would help us better but I do have a question about the person you are having trouble with. Are they doing a slow spinny loop or a loop drive? A loop drive will be harder to keep under control. What I mean is, it will be harder to keep from going off the end of the table vs a spinny loop which might be harder for you to keep the height closer to the net. I would say you need more practice more so than EJing for a new blade. The Defplay will be ok for you till can control all loops. IMO though I would put some sponge under your LP.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 05:08 
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treetop wrote:
OK. I use Defplay Senso with Dtec OX. And let me just stipulate up front that my chopping "skills" are probably at a low-mid intermediate level....so any advice

I'm getting the first cpl of chops back on the table at a reasonable height....but it seems like...more often than not...the next ball sits up to high and it gets killed.

Outside of a likely breakdown in my chopping stroke :headbang: ....I'm wondering if I'm wandering too far back and my chops are simply too slow....

And rather than start a new thread.....I'm also wondering if OX rubber on slightly stiffer blade would work better for me. I've been using the Tibhar Defense +....and it's a little more rigid than the Defplay but it's also slower. I'm like Goldilocks.....I wish I could find a blade with the same speed as the Defplay but also slightly stiffer. Any ideas?

I've tried numerous blades....Tibhar Stratus Power Defense is very nice blade for chopping but it's way too bouncy for at the table play. Chen Weixing is a fantastic blade but is a little too fast also too springy for my taste.

I need a dull....lifeless blade :) with a Def +/All - speed.



Im not a high level but I do like to chop myself. I find that it's not the high balls that I give back that give me trouble but the short ones. I do even better on the high balls I send back as long as they are deep. MY opponents tend to loop or loop drive them with a higher chance of making an error. Those short returns that just get over the net they either drive really quickly and safely which tend to have a wider angle or bounce up really high that I cant get to it, or they push softly/drop shot a short low return chop that I have to scramble to get to which usually ends up as a pop up even if I do get to it.

Begs the question is it better to keep your cops low (whether deep or short) .. or to make sure they are deep(low or even high)? IF you have to err, which is generally preferable?

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 05:14 
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Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
Does the Dtecs 0X have a glue sheet under it? I haven't played with any of those blades, but what I can say is that I like a hard but slower wood for mine.

I try to chop as hard as I can to give it as much backspin as possible. When I goof, its got crappy spin, LOL, and when I connect just right, its got tremendous spin, but because I am always trying so hard, my opponent doesn't know which it is. I think its best to land them deep so my opponent won't try to stand up at the table.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 07:08 
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havn`t used Detecs but it sounds like your getting underneath the ball too much if its too high,I presume your chopping against topspin so should be aiming more down the back of the ball rather than too horizontal blade

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 07:30 
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Yes Grumpy Joe...they are loop drives.

Old Man Southpaw.......no glue sheet

And yeah....maybe I'm getting underneath the ball too much....I'll pay more attention next session.

As for sponge? I guess I might have to bite the bullet and keep practicing with sponge. I'm so used to the "easy" over the table play with OX that it seems sponge is too much effort. Lame...I know....

I didn't like .05mm Curl PR1 on my Defplay. I do have .05 Feint 2 on one of Defplays and it's slow as hell but when goofing around with it it seems really easy to use and was able to hit some low screamers.

I think part of my problem is that I try to finesse/guide the ball over the net rather than just rip it....

And I do wish someone would suggest a new blade :lol: Soft feel, not bouncy, slowish but stiff? Anyone?


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 08:22 
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Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
I'd stay with 0X if I could. Its way better for attacking, and better control chopping, and much better reversal for pushing.

And the Dtecs is the best at those, IMO.

The more spin the ball has the faster your chopping stroke needs to be, and the faster the ball, the more vertical the stroke needs to be. Maybe when you take the ball very low, you are chopping too much forward.

Try practicing more with a robot or someone that needs practice looping are my suggestions.

I would stay with harder wood because you can attack much better with it and it gives better reversal.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 09:03 
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"I'd stay with 0X if I could. Its way better for attacking, and better control chopping, and much better reversal for pushing.
And the Dtecs is the best at those, IMO."

Yeah generically...IN THEORY....I agree that OX may be better for attacking. But I can't for the life of me figure out how to attack consistently with Dtec in general and with my setup specifically. It's to the point where I don't even attempt it in a game unless I'm comfortably ahead.
And this subtopic dovetails with another post I made a week or so ago regarding my desire to find an alternative to Dtec....another allround rubber that is a little more balanced. (Whatever that means)

But it's like anything....I'm used to it...it does what I need it to do better than other rubbers I've tried. I'm used to the random kookiness/instability. I work around it's limitations. (Keeping in mind MY limitations to maximize the benefits of the rubber)

But lately it's getting irritating....

I'm losing deuce games to the plus 1750 crowd by watching my return of a no spin ball float off the table. Lose: 13-11


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 11:16 
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Fwiw, Grass D.Tecs OX is the absolute worst attacking LP I've used. Its lack of grip makes it impossible to grab and flick the ball.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 12:04 
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It doesn't sound like an equipment issue. What Southpaw says regarding chopping makes a lot of sense. Also, make sure you are not reaching forward to chop spinny loops as that will send the ball skyward. If the ball is short and spinny you must move into it and not reach.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 13:32 
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"Also, make sure you are not reaching forward to chop spinny loops as that will send the ball skyward."

Bingo! I think that's exactly what I'm doing! Thanks!!


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 14:37 
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Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
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I use my robot to practice attacking. I do at least 200 balls a day of attack with pips.

If the serve is fast nospin, it will probably be topspin after 2 bounces, and for those usually a good chop works.

If it really is not spinning by the time its hit, you might try just blocking it back with the paddle at a bit of an angle but early if possible and straight at their crossover point so they don't have time to decide what to do with it, and it will have a nasty wobble and die in midair, etc.

I hate the price of Dtecs, and yes its difficult to get the attack shots to work, but when they do, they are real nasty.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2014, 20:04 
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nathanso wrote:
Fwiw, Grass D.Tecs OX is the absolute worst attacking LP I've used. Its lack of grip makes it impossible to grab and flick the ball.


Depends, I recently changed back to d-tecs and for me it's very easy to attack with d-tecs. Ball stays low and has a decent amount of wobble, attack with d-tecs is a direct point 9 times out of 10. This is with both forehand and backhand on short, long, low and high balls.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2014, 00:07 
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Attacking with Dtecs is drastically different than something grippy like KTL Stranger Atttack, feint long's, p4 etc... have to be a little more selective on the balls you attack (it doesnt counter attack topspin easily), but that being said I do beleive the attacks with Dtecs are more effective attacks. Dtecs is fast and does produce unusual balls.

As far as the chopping with Dtecs OX vs sponge pips, I made the switch to Feint Long 2 successfully just so I can learn to start to play with sponge. It has forced to really work on my form on strokes over the table, and although it doesn't do somethings as well as Dtecs it does do other things better (it has trade offs). I plan to transition to sponged Dtecs in the future.

On consideration of blades: I havent played with the Defplay, but I know the VKM is definitely slow and controlled on chops (some may say dead and lifeless), and is still suitable for FH attacks

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2014, 00:37 
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Townhouse.....what does your Feint do better than Dtec? I'm interested....because as I said above....one of my Defplays is dressed with Feint 2. I may keep working at it.....

The set up is incredibly slow. Slow is fine....but it seems like Dtec and Feint 2 are almost polar opposites.
And just based on what I have read....Feint 2 is considered to be a fairly benign rubber.


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