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Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique
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Author:  dunc [ 30 Nov 2014, 09:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sv: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk techni

Def-attack wrote:
ludo wrote:
1.0mm is probably too thin if you want to put backspin on chops.
Interesting remark about LP stroke.
A friend of mine plays with LP usually but he is well capable of chopping with SP.
Interestingly, I totally suck at chopping with LP.
I feel like I have zero control on my return (speed and spin).

First three sets played with SP. Last two wih LP. Before the match I had played for an hour with LP. No warm up before heading in to match with SP bat :) (hence the many missed chops in the first set).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2etNaNWD6s

I watched from 3mins onwards.. I saw you win an end but it was really messy.

What seemed to happen was the same thing that happens to me when I play with SPs vs. some opponents. With LPs I can get into a nice chopping rhythm, but with SPs - possibly because they can play attacking strokes as well as defensive strokes - you end up getting into bizarre rallies which don't really suit a defensive game. For example, I try to attack... but as a defender if you can't attack to kill (or at least cause enough disruption to kill from the next one), you shouldn't really attack... and, with SPs, the only shot that tends to kill is the smash. You also find yourself up at the table every so often, using the SPs to block... attacking players are great at playing against block because it's what they do the majority of the time, plus it means you're badly out of position and rhythm, so again it's not a great way to win a game as a defender.

In the following end you found yourself in a nice chopping rhythm and your game appeared much better and more controlled, although some of your SP chops were high and relatively low spin so your opponent was able to smash a few of them. If you keep practising SPs to keep your chops consistently low and spinny, and you tell yourself to only attack on your BH when you know you can kill, I think you'll find your SP level is just as high as LP.

Author:  Def-attack [ 30 Nov 2014, 17:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

Thanks Dunc. I totally agree. But to tell you the truth I am looking forward to some more attacking possibilities :). And some occasional blocking. But mostly I try SP for spin manipulation. And that I will need close to the table as well. That part of the game will require a lot more practice, more than the chopping part I think. We'll see...

Author:  agenthex [ 30 Nov 2014, 18:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

In both the videos the defender's wrist looks pretty rigid, which is IMO a cardinal sin for SP/inverted chopping. Folks can get away with this with LPs since reversal works well enough but it limits ability to chop fwd and generate spin. As mentioned above, it's like attacking backspin with upwards instead of fwd stroke (except upside down).

Author:  Danthespearton HQ [ 17 Nov 2017, 00:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

So, I'm an SP chopper and I like how my game is. I'm actually playing the best I've ever done the last 2 weeks (Holy crap, I can actually chop the ball back 5 times in a row if I have to! Especially with this SP...) and if I understand correctly, most people choose SP over LP for spin variation. I guess I'm here to ask how exactly you can vary the spin to a significant amount that it gains an error from the opponent. In my experience, as far as I know, everyone I've ever played against with my current setup has never lost a point from me varying the spin on my chopping.... So I guess I just want to ask how I can do no-spin chops as opposed to spinny chops and such?

Author:  LordCope [ 17 Nov 2017, 02:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

The essence of spin variation between heavy chop and float (and in between) is a function of how fast your wrist moves. If your wrist is very relaxed and has a definite whip action when you chop, you will get a lot of spin. If instead you grip the blade a little tighter, so your wrist is firmer, and less relaxed, your shot will have less spin. Of course you need to compensate for the change in feeling associated, but that's basically how you do it. Same is so with a push.

Author:  Danthespearton HQ [ 17 Nov 2017, 02:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

LordCope wrote:
The essence of spin variation between heavy chop and float (and in between) is a function of how fast your wrist moves. If your wrist is very relaxed and has a definite whip action when you chop, you will get a lot of spin. If instead you grip the blade a little tighter, so your wrist is firmer, and less relaxed, your shot will have less spin. Of course you need to compensate for the change in feeling associated, but that's basically how you do it. Same is so with a push.

I ALWAYS chop while trying to be as relaxed as I can, but when I do tense up, even in those moments my opponent may net the ball... would you say it's because they just have trouble dealing with backspin? Also, when I chop, I don't really feel like I'm using my wrist; is the whip motion subconscious? Am I using my wrist without knowing it?

Author:  LordCope [ 17 Nov 2017, 04:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

If you think about it - your chop action involves a hinging of (at least) three joints: shoulder, elbow, wrist. By virtue of being at the end of the chain, if your wrist is relaxed, it will naturally snap back and forth as part of that motion. If you consciously prevent it, the racket speed at the point of contact will be slower, and you'll get less spin.

You may still be generating a lot of spin when you do firm up your wrist. If you want even less you can think of a less fine brush or even "carrying the ball" so you impart less spin.

Author:  dunc [ 17 Nov 2017, 07:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

Depending upon what level you're playing at, I wouldn't worry too much about making the no spin chop "subtle".

Basically, if a player topspins the ball to you, you just need to "match" its spin to float a chop. This sounds quite complex but it's surprisingly straightforward. One of the ways to achieve it is playing a smaller stroke, e.g. start from your usual position but instead of ripping "through" the ball, simply chop to the height of the ball then stop. What you'll likely find is that, to begin with, you send the ball long... but after a fairly short period of time, you should get the hang of it.

Now, to an experienced chopper, the difference between a heavy backspin chop with SPs and this kind of half-motion floaty chop is really quite noticeable. However, to most attackers even at a decent level, they won't notice.

You can definitely start to use this as a weapon. Also, I suspect you'll find that as you play against quicker/better loopers, the floaty chop becomes a mainstay in your game - not because you're trying to vary the spin, but because if you're under pressure and out of position it's the only real option you have available.

As you get the knack of the half-motion float, you'll start to "feel" how to play the floaty chop - and then you can start to play a bigger, better-disguised version of the float that even top attackers will struggle to read.

Author:  Danthespearton HQ [ 17 Nov 2017, 07:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

LordCope wrote:
If you think about it - your chop action involves a hinging of (at least) three joints: shoulder, elbow, wrist. By virtue of being at the end of the chain, if your wrist is relaxed, it will naturally snap back and forth as part of that motion. If you consciously prevent it, the racket speed at the point of contact will be slower, and you'll get less spin.

You may still be generating a lot of spin when you do firm up your wrist. If you want even less you can think of a less fine brush or even "carrying the ball" so you impart less spin.

That makes sense. I guess when I relax, it automatically brings about that "whip" to my chop.

Author:  Danthespearton HQ [ 17 Nov 2017, 08:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

dunc wrote:
Depending upon what level you're playing at, I wouldn't worry too much about making the no spin chop "subtle".

Basically, if a player topspins the ball to you, you just need to "match" its spin to float a chop. This sounds quite complex but it's surprisingly straightforward. One of the ways to achieve it is playing a smaller stroke, e.g. start from your usual position but instead of ripping "through" the ball, simply chop to the height of the ball then stop. What you'll likely find is that, to begin with, you send the ball long... but after a fairly short period of time, you should get the hang of it.

Now, to an experienced chopper, the difference between a heavy backspin chop with SPs and this kind of half-motion floaty chop is really quite noticeable. However, to most attackers even at a decent level, they won't notice.

You can definitely start to use this as a weapon. Also, I suspect you'll find that as you play against quicker/better loopers, the floaty chop becomes a mainstay in your game - not because you're trying to vary the spin, but because if you're under pressure and out of position it's the only real option you have available.

As you get the knack of the half-motion float, you'll start to "feel" how to play the floaty chop - and then you can start to play a bigger, better-disguised version of the float that even top attackers will struggle to read.

What do you mean by "chop to the height of the ball"? I would say I chop the ball between the top of my belly down to the top of my waist (depends on my positioning).

Author:  Danthespearton HQ [ 07 Dec 2017, 12:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Calling all short pimple choppers: let's talk technique

Danthespearton HQ wrote:
dunc wrote:
Depending upon what level you're playing at, I wouldn't worry too much about making the no spin chop "subtle".

Basically, if a player topspins the ball to you, you just need to "match" its spin to float a chop. This sounds quite complex but it's surprisingly straightforward. One of the ways to achieve it is playing a smaller stroke, e.g. start from your usual position but instead of ripping "through" the ball, simply chop to the height of the ball then stop. What you'll likely find is that, to begin with, you send the ball long... but after a fairly short period of time, you should get the hang of it.

Now, to an experienced chopper, the difference between a heavy backspin chop with SPs and this kind of half-motion floaty chop is really quite noticeable. However, to most attackers even at a decent level, they won't notice.

You can definitely start to use this as a weapon. Also, I suspect you'll find that as you play against quicker/better loopers, the floaty chop becomes a mainstay in your game - not because you're trying to vary the spin, but because if you're under pressure and out of position it's the only real option you have available.

As you get the knack of the half-motion float, you'll start to "feel" how to play the floaty chop - and then you can start to play a bigger, better-disguised version of the float that even top attackers will struggle to read.

What do you mean by "chop to the height of the ball"? I would say I chop the ball between the top of my belly down to the top of my waist (depends on my positioning).

I've been thinking about what you said dunc, and when you say chop to the height of the ball, do you mean something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAbK_5wmZi0&t=216s
I'm using Yuto Muramatsu for reference since he's an SP chopper (and the only one in the world's top 50 players); at moments like 0:54, 1:37-43, and 2:25, when the ball is further from his reach, he doesn't really use a full stroke. Would those be examples of what you're trying to say?

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