OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips

I've started a UKCC level 1 coaching course. One of the gripes I had was that although short pips are recognised as a type of rubber all the shots are described as if the player is using "reverse" as the ETTA insist on calling it - inverted for others. I asked our tutor why nothing is covered about the technique for other types of pimpled out rubbers or anti spin and she said look at the top players in the world and you'll see double inverted is the majority of players - usual argument you win nothing with pimples at top level. Not wanting to pick holes about "if you don't train the style, you won't produce winners of that style" I changed tack and asked what about players who don't want to play at the top level, but who want to develop a style they enjoy. The response was teach double inverted - getting a good grounding in how to play the strokes and then if a player wants to develop a pimple or anti spin game consider moving down that path but you must get a grounding in how to play double inverted shots first. That makes it very very hard to find a coach who knows how to use pimples at a later date and who is comfortable teaching short pimple technqiues.

Does anyone out there know of any
- coaches who specialise in coaching short pimples or
- any videos on the correct short pimpled techniques or
- an english coaching book on how to play with short pimples

A while ago someone posted about an excellent coaching book in chinese about how to use pimples properly but I could never find a translated version of it in English.

Cheers

Author:	Debater [ 12 Oct 2013, 21:50 ]
Post subject:	A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
I've started a UKCC level 1 coaching course. One of the gripes I had was that although short pips are recognised as a type of rubber all the shots are described as if the player is using "reverse" as the ETTA insist on calling it - inverted for others. I asked our tutor why nothing is covered about the technique for other types of pimpled out rubbers or anti spin and she said look at the top players in the world and you'll see double inverted is the majority of players - usual argument you win nothing with pimples at top level. Not wanting to pick holes about "if you don't train the style, you won't produce winners of that style" I changed tack and asked what about players who don't want to play at the top level, but who want to develop a style they enjoy. The response was teach double inverted - getting a good grounding in how to play the strokes and then if a player wants to develop a pimple or anti spin game consider moving down that path but you must get a grounding in how to play double inverted shots first. That makes it very very hard to find a coach who knows how to use pimples at a later date and who is comfortable teaching short pimple technqiues. Does anyone out there know of any - coaches who specialise in coaching short pimples or - any videos on the correct short pimpled techniques or - an english coaching book on how to play with short pimples A while ago someone posted about an excellent coaching book in chinese about how to use pimples properly but I could never find a translated version of it in English. Cheers

Author:	dunc [ 12 Oct 2013, 22:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Dr Neubauer has a pimple techniques DVD which shows how to play various different strokes with SP, MP, LP and anti-spin: http://www.teessport.com/videos-and-dvd ... -dvd-p8727 I'm not sure his technique is orthodox for those rubbers, but they're effective and well-practised all the same.

Author:	Debater [ 12 Oct 2013, 22:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
And I have the hallmark video with Carl Prean - but it's more a marketing video for their rubbers. I'd hope that Dr Neubauer wasn't using it to promote his rubbers and I don't know if he's ever played short pips backhand inverted forehand counter hitting game. What worries me is that it says that of 50 different techniques, 20 of these techniques are performed with new anti spin rubbers, Gorilla and Grizzly. Thanks for posting though.

Author:	dunc [ 12 Oct 2013, 22:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
I've got that DVD. It's literally just a library of strokes split into those categories. I bought it when I ws using SPs and although it's not as comprehensive for SP as it is for LP it's still a useful resource. It's certainly not a marketing DVD, I wouldn't have watched if it even felt like that.

Author:	mynamenotbob [ 13 Oct 2013, 04:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
You're right Debater, there is very little good information out there on playing with short pimples. There are some excellent coaches I know of in the LA area who personally use short pips and I'm sure would teach it if someone wanted to learn, but the demand is for double inverted. No good current videos that I know of, no books of any significance. There is a Kindle book on playing with short pips, but I wasn't impressed. Gao Jun, a famed SP player, recently did a training video, but that was disappointing also. Some notable SP player should make a training video.

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Author:	haggisv [ 14 Oct 2013, 06:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
I'm sure there's a fair percentage of female player at the elite levels that play with short pimples... someone must be teaching them as well. I do remember a really good thread about hitting with SP here on the forum, which came from a high level Chinese player or coach... I think it was translated from Chinese.

Author:	v02man [ 10 Nov 2013, 07:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Hi Debater, Dennis Neale plays with short pips, he lives in Sheffield and gives coaching. There are plenty of videos of him online. Cheers

Author:	mynamenotbob [ 10 Nov 2013, 07:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Forum member PingPongStephenTai recently posted a lot of great video from the 2103 Aus table tennis championships, including part of a match featuring Sharad Pandit, probably the world's top two-winged short pips player at the moment.

Author:	Debater [ 10 Nov 2013, 20:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
MNNB - I was very surprised how much Sharad Pandit pushed off his backhand. It seems like he won't instigate a top spin rally off his backhand prefering instead to wait for the opponent to force the issue so he can then block or hit. I didn't once see him hit through backspin off his backhand side. v02man - thanks for the info. Most of the videos I can find of Dennis Neale are him playing in hardbat competitions against other hardbat players. It would be interesting to see him play aggressive double inverted players.

Author:	LordCope [ 10 Nov 2013, 20:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
mynamenotbob wrote: Forum member PingPongStephenTai recently posted a lot of great video from the 2103 Aus table tennis championships, including part of a match featuring Sharad Pandit, probably the world's top two-winged short pips player at the moment. I'd love to see Sharad Pandit vs Miao Miao - she also plays a 2-winged short/med pips game - pretty inspiring.

Author:	LordCope [ 10 Nov 2013, 20:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Debater wrote: The response was teach double inverted - getting a good grounding in how to play the strokes and then if a player wants to develop a pimple or anti spin game consider moving down that path but you must get a grounding in how to play double inverted shots first. That makes it very very hard to find a coach who knows how to use pimples at a later date and who is comfortable teaching short pimple technqiues. This has been exactly my experience, as an English player seeking coaching. You get forced down the sausage machine that the children are squeezed into. Little or no interest or experiencing in anything that isn't double inverted, and no interest in a defensive game. At my level (novice) I can gain a lot from speaking to other players in my league who play with pips and/or defend, but one really hopes one could get some decent coaching to ensure one wasn't picking up bad habits. That said, I think at all levels, my observation has been that it's 90% footwork, and any coach can help with that.

Author:	haggisv [ 10 Nov 2013, 21:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Debater wrote: It seems like he won't instigate a top spin rally off his backhand prefering instead to wait for the opponent to force the issue so he can then block or hit. I think that's spot on He is quite patient when you play him, and he's got great touch... and his forehand is effortless and deadly accurate!

Author:	Kees [ 16 Nov 2013, 03:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Debater wrote: I've started a UKCC level 1 coaching course. One of the gripes I had was that although short pips are recognised as a type of rubber all the shots are described as if the player is using "reverse" as the ETTA insist on calling it - inverted for others. I asked our tutor why nothing is covered about the technique for other types of pimpled out rubbers or anti spin and she said look at the top players in the world and you'll see double inverted is the majority of players - usual argument you win nothing with pimples at top level. Not wanting to pick holes about "if you don't train the style, you won't produce winners of that style" I changed tack and asked what about players who don't want to play at the top level, but who want to develop a style they enjoy. The response was teach double inverted - getting a good grounding in how to play the strokes and then if a player wants to develop a pimple or anti spin game consider moving down that path but you must get a grounding in how to play double inverted shots first. That makes it very very hard to find a coach who knows how to use pimples at a later date and who is comfortable teaching short pimple technqiues. Does anyone out there know of any - coaches who specialise in coaching short pimples or - any videos on the correct short pimpled techniques or - an english coaching book on how to play with short pimples A while ago someone posted about an excellent coaching book in chinese about how to use pimples properly but I could never find a translated version of it in English. Cheers Most of this is in the SP section...

Author:	glennholder [ 16 Nov 2013, 09:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
Nice video of Sharad Pandit, thanks! That guy sure has a FAST bat! His FH is smooth and lethal. His BH seems to have very fast rubber, I don't mean to criticize, just noticed that he lost quite a few points by over hitting the table, even with blocks, on his BH. But, I loved watching a quality SP/SP player again, THANKS!

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Author:	Shoebox9 [ 25 Jun 2014, 21:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: A lack of coaching in how to use short pips
glennholder wrote: That guy sure has a FAST bat! For future readers of this thread, his blade is All+/OFF- and only weights 60 something grams. The Australian Stiga importer ordanised it's manufacture for Sharad. You can buy it from their website. The only reason I can see for Sharad's shots being so fast, even with almost no backswing, is because the guy has muscle. Watching him play makes me wish I was also built like a tank. I use fast blades to compensate, but lose touch over the net as a result. According to Alex (and others who've played him) Sharad has awesome touch.