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 Post subject: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2016, 02:23 
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For SP forehand smash technique, do you mostly stay very close to the table? I thought I should stay close but recently I've been playing people with better loops. I saw a ~2300 USATT rated SP player training at about mid-distance countering hard loops. Is this what I should be doing?

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2016, 02:56 
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That would be dependent upon your playing style. You should be able to do both, but the percentages should be according to your style of play. In general, yes, closer to the table would be preferable to maximize the quick attack benefit of SP.

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2016, 15:39 
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I agree that closer is better, but factors such as your opponents hitting/looping speed are considerations. The bottom line as to why SP are better for close hitting is because the SP have a lower throw angle than inverted rubbers. So, a high speed exchange of shots from close range means that the SP will not over hit the table as often as inverted.

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2016, 00:34 
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It comes down to what works for you. There is no issue with moving in closer and backing of the table for different shots, so long as you can play each shot that comes to you (and assuming you have no mobility issues). There is always a trade off with wherever you are positioned. Closer to the table will inflict more power on the ball as it reaches the opponents side but gives you less time to play it. Further away the balls speed will die off sooner, but you have more time to play your shot. And of course the further back you play the quicker you must be to move in for a drop shot. It all comes down to what feels right, and what works for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2016, 08:11 
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Thank you for all your replies.

I now understand what is meant by lower throw angle. Sometimes in fast rally on FH side I get a lot of these low shots going. I think I understand a little better the advantages and disadvantages of SP and why I shouldn't get too far.

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2016, 17:15 
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gus_goose, glad you are understanding a lower throw angle. The guys on this forum taught me that! Here is an image I created to illustrate throw angle. Both of the incoming balls flying at the bat have identical flight pattern and identical spin. But the bottom illustration shows a lower throw angle. SP are a great example of a lower throw angle. For inverted, Sriver L, Sriver EL, and Sriver FX all have low throw angles. So does Hurricane 2. And many others! But most SP have a lower throw angle than these inverted rubbers.


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throw-angle.jpg
throw-angle.jpg [ 60.27 KiB | Viewed 495 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2016, 04:56 
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Thanks, that is a good drawing

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2016, 16:39 
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This is an interesting question. And it goes all the way up to the top of the sport. I watched a lot of matches at the WTTC a couple weeks ago, and I noticed that with a lot of the European men's teams, they'd stand back and loop and block at each other. The Japanese and the Chinese, though - they'd mainly play up close to the table, taking balls early and using this proximity to create wide shots. These two teams didn't meet until the finals, so there were a lot of short vs. long and long vs. long matches. In the finals, it was short vs. short. The games didn't look as spectacular, but it was a higher level of table tennis requiring a higher degree of skill.

Contrast this with the women's game. Short vs. short was much more in evidence (aside from the numerous choppers, far more than you saw among the men). The reason, I think, is the amount of power available - to handle that sort of speed and spin most of the men had to play further back. Only the Chinese and Japanese made a point of staying up close to the table.

As for high vs. low-throw - yes, that's correct, high throw rubbers react more to spin. But there's also another consequence. High throw rubbers will produce more topspin for a given speed of stroke, and therefore the arc the ball travels is higher. Hit the ball harder, the ball will go faster but you will also get more spin. The low-throw rubber, given the same stroke, will produce as much speed but the ball will curve less because there is less spin. You can, as a consequence, theoretically hit the ball harder with the high throw rubber - the same stroke, with an extreme amount of speed that causes the ball to just hit the table with the high throw rubber will cause the ball to miss with the low throw rubber.

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2016, 20:20 
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but when you wrote it like that it would seem that high throw rubbers are superior to low throw...

over the years, because the operation and problems with my eye, i developed a FH that is very fast and strong, to hit a ball in a way opponent will not return it, to shorten a point, because i couldnt leave the ball in play too long...

and whenever i take a high throw rubber or a blade, my shots dont have the penetration and speed i need...because the spin is nice and going over the net, much easier to block than when i spin it with low throw rubber...

and also, with low throw rubber is easier to block and to counter spin from the table...and to hit...

so i would say, both high and low throw rubbers have its positive and negative sides...

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2016, 21:03 
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At my coaching session last Wednesday, one of the important things my coach asked me to remember was this:

"When playing with short pips, the game is all about pressuring your opponent by giving them little time. Your shots and mentality should be all about hurrying your opponent, and giving fast shots. For this reason, it's good to try to stay close to the table when possible. If you play from further away, you loose the advantage that SP offers. You won't be able to generate as much spin as with inverted, and you won't be able to deliver a ball that travels as fast, because the ball slows down over time. If you want to play and hit or counterhit from mid distance, just use inverted, and don't bother with SP."

Hope this is useful to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Close to the table?
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2016, 21:54 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
but when you wrote it like that it would seem that high throw rubbers are superior to low throw...

over the years, because the operation and problems with my eye, i developed a FH that is very fast and strong, to hit a ball in a way opponent will not return it, to shorten a point, because i couldnt leave the ball in play too long...

and whenever i take a high throw rubber or a blade, my shots dont have the penetration and speed i need...because the spin is nice and going over the net, much easier to block than when i spin it with low throw rubber...

and also, with low throw rubber is easier to block and to counter spin from the table...and to hit...

so i would say, both high and low throw rubbers have its positive and negative sides...


I agree - I don't think a high throw rubber is necessarily better than a low throw rubber either. A high throw rubber will result in a higher trajectory, and this can make it easier for your opponent to deal with. Besides, it also reacts more to spin, making serve returns harder to manage. IF you can hit the ball hard enough, are fast enough to play close to the table, and are good enough at returning serves, the high throw rubber CAN be better for your game. If you're forced to play further back the ball's going to slow down anyway and you won't see as much of a benefit, and it might hurt if it makes your shots easier to return since the arc is higher.

Iskandar


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