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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2013, 22:04 
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Correct me if I'm wrong here but to me it seems that all things being equal, the aggressor over time is more likely to win more points than the defender if two people are of equal ability (subjective). Of course there are exceptions but generally this seems to be the case. I've been reading and watching a few videos on this topic and everything seems add to the fact that if you are an attacking player you should try attack as soon as the ball is either long enough for its second bounce to be off the table ie to be able to get a decent swing, or if it is short, if it sits up a bit you can flick it. This is often done on the 3rd hit ie 3rd ball attack as often this is when the ball seems to gather some speed and length. Of course to do this you need the skill to be able to do it. So this has set me on a path to be able to loop most long balls including my nemesis..backspin. In practicing today I sensed some improvement and despite missing quite a few I was also landing a few more than I normally wouldn't. The thing is that at my current level, I probably don't need to be that aggressive and can afford to poke around for a while however to complete consistently in our A grade this is an area I feel I must practice and be good at, looping the 3rd ball and anything long. Am I on the right track?

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Last edited by Cobalt on 28 Oct 2013, 07:46, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2013, 23:17 
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Yes!


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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2013, 23:45 
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Yes x 2. The better the player the earlier they will attack you. Its all relative too. I attack first against anyone in my club, yet against stronger players I almost never find myself able to initiate the attack. You come to see me next weekend and bring your friend. I'll feed you a thousand backspin balls in boxes of 100, you'll either go home looping or in an ambulance :rofl: .

I had an experiment once against one of the better young players around here on 1550 or so vic points, his coach had us play a normal game and I got 5 or 6 points every time blocking.. I couldn't do anything else. Then his coach told him to not attack until after I did. I beat him 11-3 or 11-4 everytime. This just goes to show you how important that first attack really is, once you get one good loop in, 80% of the time that's the end of that even if the other player is a better player than yourself. The trick is they never give you the chance normally :p.

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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2013, 05:21 
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In general, I believe the first one to successfully and decisively attack will win most points. Having said that, many defenders WANT opponents to attack and thrive off of it. To these skilled players who can retrieve or chop or kill spin with consistency and placement, such returns, although NOT an attack, have the same effect vs an equal OFF player. It is a matter of perspective sometimes.

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2013, 20:46 
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I must confess that for me to attack first is worse for my game than to have my opponent attack. It seems that unless I can attack with a winning stroke that my openings end up aggressively attacked for winners and I lose the point. It may be me only-but that is how it rolls in the 1500-1800 USATT level.


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2013, 11:24 
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Last night was my first competition with my new 3rd ball attacking strategy in place. It often wasn't 3rd ball but it was me who was taking the initiative against my 2 better opponents and I could see it was putting them on the back foot. I really was in control and it was me who either won or lost the point, though they were making their fair share of unforced errors, I think due to my pressure. I made a lot of errors but kept encouraging myself to persist despite these errors, its the only way I will improve. My technique needs a lot of practice on the forehand. Backhand wasn't too bad but need a little more commitment and confidence to each shot which will come over time. Despite losing many points by trying to attack when I normally wouldn't, I could see that the strategy will definitely work when I get a little better. At times it was frustrating repeatedly making errors whilst forcing myself to do topspin against pushes and I could see the umpire at one stage was questioning what I was doing and at one point encouraged me to push and chop however that wasn't what I was there to do last night. It was hard when the set were in the balance, doing shots that at this stage had a high risk rate and risking losing the set, but I didn't care, I was there to get better, not stay the same. In fact despite these errors, I lost in 5 sets to both these opponents which is as good a result as I've had against either of them lately so once I improve a little on my stroke I expect to see a significant improvement to my results. Overall very pleased as I now have clarity as to what I need to improve to make me better and see that its quite achievable. Hopefully foam can put me on the right track in regard to technique then its just a matter of persistence and practice.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2013, 11:55 
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that's great - the right way to start improving!

It doesn't have to be a 3rd ball attack, but if you bear in mind on every shot that if you can't attack, you must limit their attack, or set up your own, then the %'s will be much higher. You must start to train yourself to look for the attack, and only if you can't reasonably safely attack, then keep it as tight or surprising as possible, you will I'm sure see big improvements...


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2013, 15:47 
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I went to the chiropractor today especailly so that I can loop properly on the weekend lol, hopefully :). It seems good enough anyway. :up: You are doing the right thing, I said the same thing to myself when I was 16 and just kept looping. Everyone at the club back then were choppers and made fun of me missing all the time because I'd try and hit a loop against anything and in the beginning is cost me tons of matches. What they didn't notice from the sidelines was that every week I missed less and less. The day of defeat came eventually for every single one of them. One by one :up: .

I wouldn't try copy me as far as technique goes because it's wrong, it works for me but it's not the right way. Still, I should be able to show you how to best use your technique. Everyone moves a little differently.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2013, 17:03 
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As for issues when looping against underspin: You may benefit from a bit of "hook" (angle the wrist a bit, so you add sidespin to the loop ; not sure, but I think "hook" is the common term for that). That serves (at least) two purposes:
  • You get a spin which alters the bounce (the ball kicks sideways), which makes it harder to return.
  • You are probably engaging the ball closer to the axis of rotation, so you will be less disturbed by incoming spin.
Note: Underspin is rarely just underspin, and any side-/corkspin that underspin comes with, influences the way a hook helps against incoming spin. Against some players you may be better off using a straight loop.
Also, when the spin is more sideways, there is less topspin, which does not benefit the really fast loops which rely on strong topspin to land on the table.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2013, 19:01 
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Today I traveled a couple of hours and had a hit with foam and he set me on the right track. After hitting a heap of balls I could really feel my loop coming together. I know it can be a slow process and I've got a long way to go but today is the best I've ever looped, though it still wasn't very good but at least the contact (or lack of) was starting to come. Thanks foam :up: Hopefully I can start getting a few going in games and report back some positives.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2013, 19:55 
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Fast learner :). He's going to multi ball himself into a solid looper now.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2013, 19:58 
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Cobalt wrote:
Today I traveled a couple of hours and had a hit with foam and he set me on the right track. After hitting a heap of balls I could really feel my loop coming together. I know it can be a slow process and I've got a long way to go but today is the best I've ever looped, though it still wasn't very good but at least the contact (or lack of) was starting to come. Thanks foam :up: Hopefully I can start getting a few going in games and report back some positives.

Good on you Cobalt & foam! :up: :up: :up:

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2013, 20:42 
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Oh yeah I had a hit with his combo. Donic applegren allplay and Venus ii?. Very nice unit, perfect for what he wants it for. I'd use the blade myself for sure. Plenty fast enough and it could be a lot faster with different rubber. That's the kind of blade that makes real rating gains.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2013, 22:15 
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Yep, venus ii forehand, Venus I backhand. After watching foam, unfortunately now I'm not able to blame the equipment for any faults, it's all me. |(

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2013, 22:29 
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Cobalt wrote:
Yep, venus ii forehand, Venus I backhand. After watching foam, unfortunately now I'm not able to blame the equipment for any faults, it's all me. |(


True, but don't feel so bad. Foam's developed his technique for about 30 years, so u have a bit of catching up to do. ;) :lol:

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