OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 19 Oct 2017, 07:34


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 05:51 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2012, 09:36
Posts: 6
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Hey everyone,
I've been a long time lurker here but I finally decided to come out and ask for some help.

I've been struggling with my forehand loop. It lacks power. I can generate a nice amount of topspin and get it to land where I want it most of the time if I'm not rushed too much. But against some of the better players, I struggle because my loop is so slow that it is easy pickings for them to smash it.

I've read from pingskills that to generate more power, I have to move my arm more horizontally to generate more forward motion. But I guess when I do that, my loop becomes more like a drive that often causes the ball to hit into the net.

Any tips?
Thanks

_________________
Backhand rubber: cheap generic inverted rubber
Forehand rubber: another cheap generic inverted rubber
Does the rubber matter? Not as much as the skill and technique.

How I finance my table tennis addition: http://pockitchange.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 06:01 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2013, 12:39
Posts: 248
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 9 times
rotate your hips!

_________________
VKM
Tenergy 05 2.1
Feint Long III .5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 06:19 
Offline
CTRL_ALT_Loop
CTRL_ALT_Loop
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2011, 08:20
Posts: 1351
Location: Egersund, Norway
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 135 times
About the question in your sig: Does the rubber matter? Yes it does, to some degree. More for looping than for any other stroke, I think.

So what do you need in a rubber?
There has to be sufficient friction so you can hit the ball thinly without it slipping.
It must be elastic, so you can "load up" the spin by stretching it sideways. This stretching is a combination of sponge "skew", pip bending and topsheet stretching. Thicker sponge means you can load it up more.

Generally, softer rubbers work better with long swing, while firm rubbers favor more compact strokes. The principle is much like loading up a slingshot. With a soft rubber band you need to stretch it more for a good shot. With a firm band you don't pull as far back, but must use more force when stretching.

Does your "generic" rubber have a name?

Elaborating THC's advice: To enable hip rotation, you need to lean forward, so your weight rests on the front half of your foot. When your heels are free to move sideways, your hips are free to rotate. If you move your weight backwards, that locks up your heels, and rotation is only possible from the waist up.

_________________
My blog of failures, etc., also containing equipment list at "resurrection" (referred to in a few of my early posts), and my current lineup
Rating in the middle/low range in the region.
Moderating the LP Attacking subforum in the Technique section.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 06:20 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2012, 09:36
Posts: 6
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
townhousecrackers wrote:
rotate your hips!


Yeah, this is where I think it gets complicated.
My coach told me not to rotate my hips too much because he said before that I was wasting too much of my energy moving by rotating my hips. He wanted me to use more of my forearm and arm to generate the power.... But it's so awkward doing that. Maybe I need to find that right balance between moving my hips and arm.

_________________
Backhand rubber: cheap generic inverted rubber
Forehand rubber: another cheap generic inverted rubber
Does the rubber matter? Not as much as the skill and technique.

How I finance my table tennis addition: http://pockitchange.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 14:24 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2010, 13:39
Posts: 1363
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 61 times
I appreciated this comment from keme:
Quote:
There has to be sufficient friction so you can hit the ball thinly without it slipping.
It must be elastic, so you can "load up" the spin by stretching it sideways. This stretching is a combination of sponge "skew", pip bending and topsheet stretching. Thicker sponge means you can load it up more.

Generally, softer rubbers work better with long swing, while firm rubbers favor more compact strokes. The principle is much like loading up a slingshot. With a soft rubber band you need to stretch it more for a good shot. With a firm band you don't pull as far back, but must use more force when stretching.


I learned from it!

_________________
My paddle has a weird shape, looks like the one in my avatar image.

Blade: KTL Instinct+

Rubbers: BH Friendship 802-1 Short Pips 1.0mm
FH Gambler Reflectoid 1.5mm inverted


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 15:34 
Offline
The EJ's Boogyman
The EJ's Boogyman
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 12:20
Posts: 2471
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 124 times
A lot of power comes from your right leg (assuming you are right handed) and the resulting weight-transference to the left leg. Ensure that your feet are on the floor and stable throughout the stroke as any movement will result in a loss of power. Also, with looping it is crucial that you get into position at the back of your swing as early as possible. Many players are too slow to get into position and so their stroke consists of a backwards and forwards swing in the same motion and this leads to a loss of power (not to mention a hurried mess at contact point).

Posting a video of your stroke would help us give you more informed advice.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 21:57 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
kay838 wrote:
Yeah, this is where I think it gets complicated.
My coach told me not to rotate my hips too much because he said before that I was wasting too much of my energy moving by rotating my hips. He wanted me to use more of my forearm and arm to generate the power.... But it's so awkward doing that. Maybe I need to find that right balance between moving my hips and arm.


I think your final sentence is what your coach wants. If not, get rid of him because you'll end up with injuries if all the power needs to come from your arm and forearm.

A loop is a smooth motion of energy transfer starting from the bending of legs, going over the rotating hips and upper body and ending with the arm, forearm and wrist. Most of the power comes from the legs and the rotation. The wrist is to finetune the movement. All these components are necessary to have a good loop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 22:29 
Offline
The EJ's Boogyman
The EJ's Boogyman
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 12:20
Posts: 2471
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 124 times
Lorre wrote:
I think your final sentence is what your coach wants. If not, get rid of him because you'll end up with injuries if all the power needs to come from your arm and forearm.

A loop is a smooth motion of energy transfer starting from the bending of legs, going over the rotating hips and upper body and ending with the arm, forearm and wrist. Most of the power comes from the legs and the rotation. The wrist is to finetune the movement. All these components are necessary to have a good loop.


+1 very good post.

You will wreck your shoulder if your power comes mainly from your arm. What level is your coach?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 23:13 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2012, 09:36
Posts: 6
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
carbonman wrote:
Lorre wrote:
I think your final sentence is what your coach wants. If not, get rid of him because you'll end up with injuries if all the power needs to come from your arm and forearm.

A loop is a smooth motion of energy transfer starting from the bending of legs, going over the rotating hips and upper body and ending with the arm, forearm and wrist. Most of the power comes from the legs and the rotation. The wrist is to finetune the movement. All these components are necessary to have a good loop.


+1 very good post.

You will wreck your shoulder if your power comes mainly from your arm. What level is your coach?


Thanks everyone for your tips!

My coach is 2200. Maybe I should find a 2500 level coach because it sounds like he is messing me up a little bit with his teaching.

_________________
Backhand rubber: cheap generic inverted rubber
Forehand rubber: another cheap generic inverted rubber
Does the rubber matter? Not as much as the skill and technique.

How I finance my table tennis addition: http://pockitchange.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 23:29 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2012, 09:36
Posts: 6
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
keme wrote:
About the question in your sig: Does the rubber matter? Yes it does, to some degree. More for looping than for any other stroke, I think.

So what do you need in a rubber?
There has to be sufficient friction so you can hit the ball thinly without it slipping.
It must be elastic, so you can "load up" the spin by stretching it sideways. This stretching is a combination of sponge "skew", pip bending and topsheet stretching. Thicker sponge means you can load it up more.

Generally, softer rubbers work better with long swing, while firm rubbers favor more compact strokes. The principle is much like loading up a slingshot. With a soft rubber band you need to stretch it more for a good shot. With a firm band you don't pull as far back, but must use more force when stretching.

Does your "generic" rubber have a name?

Elaborating THC's advice: To enable hip rotation, you need to lean forward, so your weight rests on the front half of your foot. When your heels are free to move sideways, your hips are free to rotate. If you move your weight backwards, that locks up your heels, and rotation is only possible from the waist up.


The rubbers are Friendship Geospin tacky rubbers which are on the softer side.

I need to start recording myself when I play practice matches so I can figure out if my weight transfer is correct. Thanks for your tip!

_________________
Backhand rubber: cheap generic inverted rubber
Forehand rubber: another cheap generic inverted rubber
Does the rubber matter? Not as much as the skill and technique.

How I finance my table tennis addition: http://pockitchange.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 23:38 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2013, 12:39
Posts: 248
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 9 times
I think you should probably listen to your coach, and if you don't understand why you are doing something just ask for an explanation. Asking your coach questions is generally a good practice.

Often times (less nowadays) I am learning something new from my coach and I just dont understand why I am learning a certain stroke, or why it is better, or how it even fits in my game because I never do it, or a variety things. Or he is trying to show me a stroke that when doing my own way works, but when I am trying to learn the proper form I just fail miserably. Then after 3 months of sucking at something all of a sudden it clicks, and I can begin to understand why I needed to do it this way and why what I was doing was so wrong, my doubts were washed away.

Doubting something you don't understand is natural. Perhaps your coach is still trying to teach you building blocks and fundamentals before you go into full fledged power looping. If you like your coach and he has helped other players and you genuinely think he can help your game. I would follow his direction.

_________________
VKM
Tenergy 05 2.1
Feint Long III .5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2014, 23:51 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
kay838 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your tips!

My coach is 2200. Maybe I should find a 2500 level coach because it sounds like he is messing me up a little bit with his teaching.


A coach rated 2200 knows this. That why I find the post of THC appropiate for your situation.

townhousecrackers wrote:
I think you should probably listen to your coach, and if you don't understand why you are doing something just ask for an explanation. Asking your coach questions is generally a good practice.

Often times (less nowadays) I am learning something new from my coach and I just dont understand why I am learning a certain stroke, or why it is better, or how it even fits in my game because I never do it, or a variety things. Or he is trying to show me a stroke that when doing my own way works, but when I am trying to learn the proper form I just fail miserably. Then after 3 months of sucking at something all of a sudden it clicks, and I can begin to understand why I needed to do it this way and why what I was doing was so wrong, my doubts were washed away.

Doubting something you don't understand is natural. Perhaps your coach is still trying to teach you building blocks and fundamentals before you go into full fledged power looping. If you like your coach and he has helped other players and you genuinely think he can help your game. I would follow his direction.


I recognize this, but then as amateur coach. I'm trying to teach someone to play the game. He also asks me a lot of questions. --> 3 months later: "Now I understand why you taught me this." :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2014, 00:34 
Offline
The EJ's Boogyman
The EJ's Boogyman
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 12:20
Posts: 2471
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 124 times
Lorre wrote:
kay838 wrote:
My coach is 2200. Maybe I should find a 2500 level coach because it sounds like he is messing me up a little bit with his teaching.


A coach rated 2200 knows this.

Maybe but not necessarily. A 2200 player is somewhere between an intermediate level and a developed level player. I have seen some good 2200ish coaches but also some dodgy ones. The best idea is to give us a clip of your loop. if not, it may be worth trying a 2500 level coach as he should know the correct path.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 May 2014, 18:43 
Offline
Full member
User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2013, 22:22
Posts: 78
Location: Vienna
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 18 times
A coach must understand the game and technique and not be a good player himself, by the way ;-)

For tips on your FH loop it is more useful to have a video where we can see you playing. Just a description does not help because your point of view can be different from what others see.
So if you really want to improve your technique a video is useful ... more than a description ;-)

_________________
Werner Schlager Academy - Table Tennis School in Vienna, Austria:
http://www.wernerschlageracademy.com/table-tennis-school.html

Coach at WSA and modern defender.
Racket:
BTY T05 (2,1mm) - BTY Joo Se Hyuk, straight - TSP Curl P4 (1,5)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kuko61 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: