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 Post subject: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 10:59 
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Hi everyone, I am a full RPB penholder who resumed table tennis after a 4 years break (which does not really make a difference since I was never good anyway...).

Now I am trying to learn to loop properly with my backhand. Coaches and other players in my club have told me to always hit the backhand in front of my body, with my elbow as the pivot point. I find that it works fine for drive and block where I only add the necessary spin to keep the ball on the table. But when I want to add more spin to the shot, I find that I am trying to stand up to lift the ball, and the ball ends up with a high arc. In order to generate more speed and spin, should I rotate my body like playing forehand, or my whole body should move forward, or any other way?

Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 11:37 
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I wouldn't use elbow as a pivot point for an rpb loop (or any bh loop). You can, but you can't really get as much power out of the bh compared to if you use your arm as a whole. The guy i knew who windscreen wipered around his elbow had to compensate with super fast equipment.

You can use hip twist/body to add power, but it's something you would really only do away from the table, possibly at mid distance. You should also try to keep the contact point in front of you, not off to the side like a fh.

Close in, adding spin and speed, it's really a case of getting your arm/body/etc to work as a whole and not pivoting around the elbow.

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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 14:19 
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Shakehand or RPB, stroke is much the same.

BTW, I agree with the "Coaches and other players".


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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 14:44 
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What is the coach telling him above? Less up and down and more rotation?

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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 15:29 
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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 18:59 
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I agree with Silver up to a point. Wrist action is more important with BH loops than FH. With RPB this is probably even more important.

Still, to get proper power you need to start the movement from your core muscles. There will not be much body movement, only a "nudge" to start the shoulder, upper arm continuing the movement, force propagating through forearm to hand. The whiplash action of the wrist must be controlled rather than forced.

The forced "windshield wiper" stroke pivoting around the elbow can be very effective. It is also very tiring (heavy workload on the arm muscles) and if you do it a lot, RSI is a serious risk. Elbow bursitis and carpal tunnel syndrome are no fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 08:19 
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Quote:
The forced "windshield wiper" stroke pivoting around the elbow

I am not sure when using the elbow for a pivot point became synonymous with "the forced winshield wiper stroke." Perhaps we have different definitions.

I don't believe using the elbow as a pivot, and initiating with core, and using wrist are mutually exclusive. For maximum power you want all three. Initiate with the core, pivot around the elbow and let the wrist come through.

Core usage is not dependent on distance from the table. It is dependent on time available, which is also normally related to the energy on the incoming ball, and how much energy you want to apply. I may be very close to the table and choose to use my core to add more power since the incoming ball is a slow backspin ball with low energy. This is what you see in the video with Liu Gouliang feeding backspin multiball to Ma long who is close to the table. I could be farther away from the table and if my opponent rips the ball with power, I might respond with no core since I don't have time and I don't need to add power as there is already lots of energy on the ball.

Creating leverage by pivoting around the elbow does not lead to a lack of power, it is a key to power, and one of the hallmarks of the modern backhand. Watch Ovtcharov and Xu Xin in the videos below.

I don't know how to embed to a specific time. What you want to watch in the Ovtcharov video is at 4:35.






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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 11:14 
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hclnnkhg wrote:
Hi everyone, I am a full RPB penholder who resumed table tennis after a 4 years break (which does not really make a difference since I was never good anyway...).

Now I am trying to learn to loop properly with my backhand. Coaches and other players in my club have told me to always hit the backhand in front of my body, with my elbow as the pivot point. I find that it works fine for drive and block where I only add the necessary spin to keep the ball on the table. But when I want to add more spin to the shot, I find that I am trying to stand up to lift the ball, and the ball ends up with a high arc. In order to generate more speed and spin, should I rotate my body like playing forehand, or my whole body should move forward, or any other way?

Thanks in advance.

Go on YouTube and watch Wang Hao's tutorial on RPB. The key is actually the crouching position to start with. So footwork is important to get the timing right so that you don't feel like standing up to hit the ball. If the incoming ball has a higher arc than you expected, you need to move backward a bit to accommodate.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Backhand looping
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 12:45 
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SFF_liberte wrote:
hclnnkhg wrote:
Hi everyone, I am a full RPB penholder who resumed table tennis after a 4 years break (which does not really make a difference since I was never good anyway...).

Now I am trying to learn to loop properly with my backhand. Coaches and other players in my club have told me to always hit the backhand in front of my body, with my elbow as the pivot point. I find that it works fine for drive and block where I only add the necessary spin to keep the ball on the table. But when I want to add more spin to the shot, I find that I am trying to stand up to lift the ball, and the ball ends up with a high arc. In order to generate more speed and spin, should I rotate my body like playing forehand, or my whole body should move forward, or any other way?

Thanks in advance.

Go on YouTube and watch Wang Hao's tutorial on RPB. The key is actually the crouching position to start with. So footwork is important to get the timing right so that you don't feel like standing up to hit the ball. If the incoming ball has a higher arc than you expected, you need to move backward a bit to accommodate.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk


Agree.
Here it is:


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